Hi Guys,
Just a few questions about seting up a marine tank.
Can I successfully run a marine tanks without a sump or protein skimmer??
If so what are the requirement?
I can run an external canister, however have no room for a sump, I maybe able to run a small proetien skimmer on top of the tank.
The tank is approx 450l and 900mm deep.
What would i require to make this work with some corals and a few fish.
Any info would be great.
Cheers Dale

I suggest you do some reading on saltwater tanks and what is needed. You could do anything that you want but what you are asking would not be good fish keeping, IMO. If you can't provide your fish with a stable environment they don't do it. IMO saltwater tanks need a skimmer, although some people say they don't, It also needs a sump, although some people say they don't, all good saltwater tanks have both. My advice is don't cut corners and do it properly and you will become addicted just like me and many others. This hobby should be about the health and well-being of your fish first and hardware second.

This is just my opinion

G'day mate;

The notion that you "CANT" run a marine tank on a cannister filter is rubbish. Nothing is as black and white as that. IN the 80's and early 90's - thats what we did. An old school undergravel filter and a cannister - and we did fine. I had SPS growing in my tank and still have the tank dry in the shed now with (now bleached) coraline algae stuck like cement all over the back and sides of it.

The thing is, new methods of animal husbandry have come along, and the consensus is, a sump with either live rock or DSB refugium, +/- Macro, and a skimmer is a better way to go than a cannister for marine keeping. I say consensus - as I have read pretty widely, and I am yet to find a scientific RCT (or higher level study, eg review) of the evidence. I think most people in the hobbie just repeat what they have observed / learned / personal experience perhaps... Comments such as "CANT" and "IMPOSSIBLE" are simply not the truth. You CAN do it with a cannister, but perhaps not with the same results, and more work than if you ran a sump.

Have you considered a quality "all in one" if your stuck for room? These have a weir, and you can get them now with excellent flow as stock, good filtration and metal hallide lighting for LPS and SPS coral keeping. I run a Boyu HS 60 in my garage and I have encrusting SPS on my frag racks which I am pretty happy about.. I dont have that yet on my main display tank in the house which as cost me countless thousands to set up (although still under 6/12 old). Just goes to show you dont HAVE to spend a lot of money or MUST have a sump, to get success.


As for a cheap skimmer - here I would say dont waste your money. Up to a price, you really do get what you pay for. I have never had a lot of success with [neumatic (bubble driven) skimmers IN the tank... so I run either marine sources or reef octopus in my tanks. MS brand is a good balance between price and pretty impressive performance.

I hope this is of some help to you mate. PM me if you wish and I can point you in the direction of some marine specific forums you may be interested in, where there are loads of very experienced reefers (and newbys)


Kind regards,

Brad

PS:-

Other things you will need to consider include;
- Suitable tank. I would keep it under 2ft tall personally, as I find the expense of running lights powerful enough to reach corals on the substrate is just not economic sense to me. Its a personal choice though. Most coral display / frag tanks you see will be shallow and wide, so minimal lighting costs. Also easier to reach into the tank when cleaning / aquascaping etc. Make sure your tank is perfect. It is the cheapest part, dont skimp, and dont use a 2nd hand one that is scratched, if your going to spend a lot of money on corals etc - just doesnt make sense to me - but again, personal opinion.
- Suitable water (artifical or natural sea water, how your going to source it / store it etc)
- Lighting (compact T5, Metal Hallide - aim for 1w per L) or LED
- I would use a skimmer (just looking at what mine pulls out of each system, I cant imagine that muck being left in the tank) - but several successful reef keepers dont
- substrate (crushed coral, sand, crushed marble / granite etc)
- Heating
- Wave makers (more the better, aim for about 30 - 50 x tank volume per hour)
- RO unit to make distilled water for top ups (optional)
- Filtration (Sump or weir or dare I say it...... Cannister lol).
- Good salt water testing kit for monitoring the cycling process
- Quality live rock. Ask around - dont get it from a LFS that has had it in a dirty holding tank for weeks. Get it delivered from the reef through someone like acroal.com.au or pete at 100% reef safe at redcliffe.
- Probidio - this is optional - but reallllly boosts along the cycle process and I love it!

just some things for you to ponder.

OK I am off,

Regards,

Brad.

ya never say never

consider looking into lower light corals for such a deep tank
morphs and leathers would be a good place to start.
a skimmer saves on water changes and when you see what they remove... you'll be glad ya have it!
remember less is more
dont stock it like a malawi tank
cannisters aint much surface area to add to what ya already got
less is more
and as always knowledge is more important than equipment
take it slow, BE PATIENT!

Hi guys,
Thanks for all the advice. Really appreciate it.

I think i will leave the tank as it is, an african display tank.

My missus is mad keen to have a marine tank and so am I, I think I will just build another tank with a sump filter for some where else in the house (running out of spots for tanks)

Braddles, if you dont mind could you please advise of these other marine forums.

Thanks again.
Cheers Dale

www.masa.asn.au

Very informative - you will learn heaps.... but remember marine reef keeping is a passion and a hobbie..

Compare it to car freaks.

People will look you in the eye and swear a ford is WAY better than a holden and vise versa... And get quiet passionate about it..

My advice to a newby is - read widely, and be patient, and remember that everything you read or are told is not always the truth, or the ONLY way.

Be patient, buy the best you can comfortably afford (its a hobbie to enjoy, not something to make you poor), and you will love it!!

Brad.

Hi northerner I'm just about to dive into marine myself as well and have done alot of and I mean alot of reading there's so many different styles you can do but you should have look at algae turf filter it's only a DIY but I'm going try it for the Quarantine marine tank and see what happins it's suppose to be the opposite to a protien skimmer instead of removing solid waste it takes out disolved waste such as phosphate and No3 all that bad stuff it's suppose to be better for corals as and produces alot more pods in the water but this is only what I read on the internet so I could be completely wrong but google it could be a cheaper way to get into marine that's the only reason why I'm going to try it plus I don't like to spend money much I enjoy reseaching it more than spending, I started a thread in DIY on the project if you wish have a glance at the Quarintine tank system but it won't have water in it till mid august that's when I move into the new house so better wait till then so there will be no real results till early september on the system but I hope it goes well for youwhen you get it setup