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What is the biggest threat to American keepers?

What is the biggest threat to American keepers?  

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  1. 1. What is the biggest threat to American keepers?



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The lack of new blood will not affect quality if fish keepers wanted to keep quality. The classic example is the electric yellow Labidochromis caeruleus whose latin name actually means blue. The electric yellow is just an unusual colour morph and almost every captive breed electric yellow came from the same extremely limited stock ( one pair) albeit with careful selection - Labidochromis caeruleus . The link is a bit of interesting history that everyone should already know.

Some of our bloodlines are broken beyond the point of fixing. Specifically here I'm looking at Ellioti- which will throw a few deformities even in the best batches, and just don't look right, compared to OS lines, Trimacs, which seem to be gone completely, vieja godmani, which seem to also be gone, and our 'red devils' which are so muddied it's hard to tell exactly what they are. Those species in particular would benefit greatly from a new influx, if only a few breeding pairs in the hands of a knowledgable breeder.

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Cull cull cull! The amount of rubbish you see in breeders tanks and LFS is astounding. Twisted jaws, beaks, short/deformed dorsal fin, bent tails, poor species specific features/colours, hybrids the list goes on. Either kill the weak stock or feed it to a tankbuster. There should be no excuse for not culling American cichlids when they produce hundreds, if not thousands of fry per spawn, one to two times a month. Raise a batch and let the parents look after the next 4-5 spawns. If the parents eat them well they eat them. What are you, and the market, going to do with 3,000 fry if you can't bring yourself to cull? As Winston said the market gets flooded and everyone loses interest in them because they are everywhere you look. That species then gets put on the backburner for a number of years as the cycle goes through, L number, Tangs, Malawis, Dwarves, Shrimp, Geos etc oh hey we're back to Americans whatever happened to Neetroplus nematopus I haven't seen them in years. You chase up all your leads in the hope that someone somewhere in the country has a pair so you can get some fry going. Sometimes this leads to a species vanishing for good. Quotes from forums over the years...Balzini I used to feed to my cat...Green Chromides I couldn't give away as feeders...Sajica I used to breed like clockwork but sold them on and haven't seen them since. My point is, if you release a small amount of quality fry at semi regular intervals then we have a better chance of species surviving. Flood the market and the attention span of humans wanes.

Lack of education is a tough one though. Double edged sword. There is endless supply of information on the internet. Good, bad and indifferent. Trolling through forums and websites trying to find consistent info on a species is almost laughable. Size, diet, tank size, tank conditions, tank mates, decor, breeding habits, sexing...you can find 6 different sites with species profiles and you get 6 different sets of information. That's just from the tech savvy breeders who even venture onto forums. A vast majority of quality old school breeders I've met over the years don't frequent forums anymore because of the BS that comes with them. Can't blame them really. That's a massive loss when it comes to the education of new aquarists delving into the American cichlid scene. On the flip side of that, plenty of breeders won't even let you in their fishrooms or give up any breeding/keeping information as they see it as a threat to their livelihood. Secret squirrel business! Bit hard to become educated when the information is withheld due to financial reasons. As a result someone jags a spawn and manages to raise some fry, doesn't cull because we need as many as possible to keep the species going. Poor quality stock continues. Ellioti is a prime example of people trying to breed out a genetic deformity. They should've been culled the minute they were introduced imo. Saw them for sale in a LFS the other day. Stunning fish. Vibrant colours. Bit of attitude. Kinked tails. Not just one or two, all of them! Expensive feeders at $25ea.

Not even gonna start on the Vieja and Paraneetroplus genus...

I've got a stunning, in my eyes, female white convict with 80% of her body vibrant orange. Her fins are pointed and flowing almost past her tail. Trying to find a nice bulky male with good size nuchal hump and long flowing fins is proving to be difficult. With selective line breeding I'm pretty confident I could get a completely orange female white convict. She may die of old age if I can't find the qualities in the male I'm after. Personally I would prefer to do that then get a poor quality male and take my chances. To me that just means more work and time. I might get 10% of fry showing potential. That means I have to sift through the 90% of crap to get to something that comes close to what looks promising. Start with a quality male and I might have 50% of fry showing potential. Odds are better already and the quality is solid off the bat.

Sorry for the ranting. I think culling, or lack of, needs to be added to the poll. You can either have 500 duds, which you are forced to sell at $1-$2ea, or 50 studs that you can sell for $5-$10ea. Look at the hype over German bred stock. Says it all really

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Some of our bloodlines are broken beyond the point of fixing. Specifically here I'm looking at Ellioti- which will throw a few deformities even in the best batches, and just don't look right, compared to OS lines, Trimacs, which seem to be gone completely, vieja godmani, which seem to also be gone, and our 'red devils' which are so muddied it's hard to tell exactly what they are. Those species in particular would benefit greatly from a new influx, if only a few breeding pairs in the hands of a knowledgable breeder.

I hear what you are saying but there have been numerous illegal imports already. Trimac's specifically came into the country just a couple of years ago....

There are illegal imports happening right now. It sounds like a simple easy fix but it won't fix the problems.

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Lack of education,money as well as a few other reasons is the problem with all aquatic sp kept and breed in Australia.Be it African American Asian fish or shrimp.Due to the cost of keeping a few tanks or more running people tend to sell every fish/shrimp breed be it good marginal or poor quality as anything to make a buck.Problem being large spawns that in nature only a small % survive in the hands of a accomplished Aquarist 90% may survive add this to not culling/selling culls as money now is more important to quality it soon steamrolls to a point where the select few that care to cull and selective breed are fighting a loosing battle to hold the purity and quality of a sp.

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I hear what you are saying but there have been numerous illegal imports already. Trimac's specifically came into the country just a couple of years ago....

There are illegal imports happening right now. It sounds like a simple easy fix but it won't fix the problems.

Pm me if you have Trimac info. High time we got new bloodline

Edited by myster619

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Cull cull cull! The amount of rubbish you see in breeders tanks and LFS is astounding. Twisted jaws, beaks, short/deformed dorsal fin, bent tails, poor species specific features/colours, hybrids the list goes on. Either kill the weak stock or feed it to a tankbuster. There should be no excuse for not culling American cichlids when they produce hundreds, if not thousands of fry per spawn, one to two times a month. Raise a batch and let the parents look after the next 4-5 spawns. If the parents eat them well they eat them. What are you, and the market, going to do with 3,000 fry if you can't bring yourself to cull? As Winston said the market gets flooded and everyone loses interest in them because they are everywhere you look. That species then gets put on the backburner for a number of years as the cycle goes through, L number, Tangs, Malawis, Dwarves, Shrimp, Geos etc oh hey we're back to Americans whatever happened to Neetroplus nematopus I haven't seen them in years. You chase up all your leads in the hope that someone somewhere in the country has a pair so you can get some fry going. Sometimes this leads to a species vanishing for good. Quotes from forums over the years...Balzini I used to feed to my cat...Green Chromides I couldn't give away as feeders...Sajica I used to breed like clockwork but sold them on and haven't seen them since. My point is, if you release a small amount of quality fry at semi regular intervals then we have a better chance of species surviving. Flood the market and the attention span of humans wanes.

Lack of education is a tough one though. Double edged sword. There is endless supply of information on the internet. Good, bad and indifferent. Trolling through forums and websites trying to find consistent info on a species is almost laughable. Size, diet, tank size, tank conditions, tank mates, decor, breeding habits, sexing...you can find 6 different sites with species profiles and you get 6 different sets of information. That's just from the tech savvy breeders who even venture onto forums. A vast majority of quality old school breeders I've met over the years don't frequent forums anymore because of the BS that comes with them. Can't blame them really. That's a massive loss when it comes to the education of new aquarists delving into the American cichlid scene. On the flip side of that, plenty of breeders won't even let you in their fishrooms or give up any breeding/keeping information as they see it as a threat to their livelihood. Secret squirrel business! Bit hard to become educated when the information is withheld due to financial reasons. As a result someone jags a spawn and manages to raise some fry, doesn't cull because we need as many as possible to keep the species going. Poor quality stock continues. Ellioti is a prime example of people trying to breed out a genetic deformity. They should've been culled the minute they were introduced imo. Saw them for sale in a LFS the other day. Stunning fish. Vibrant colours. Bit of attitude. Kinked tails. Not just one or two, all of them! Expensive feeders at $25ea.

Not even gonna start on the Vieja and Paraneetroplus genus...

I've got a stunning, in my eyes, female white convict with 80% of her body vibrant orange. Her fins are pointed and flowing almost past her tail. Trying to find a nice bulky male with good size nuchal hump and long flowing fins is proving to be difficult. With selective line breeding I'm pretty confident I could get a completely orange female white convict. She may die of old age if I can't find the qualities in the male I'm after. Personally I would prefer to do that then get a poor quality male and take my chances. To me that just means more work and time. I might get 10% of fry showing potential. That means I have to sift through the 90% of crap to get to something that comes close to what looks promising. Start with a quality male and I might have 50% of fry showing potential. Odds are better already and the quality is solid off the bat.

Sorry for the ranting. I think culling, or lack of, needs to be added to the poll. You can either have 500 duds, which you are forced to sell at $1-$2ea, or 50 studs that you can sell for $5-$10ea. Look at the hype over German bred stock. Says it all really

Completely agree with this post regarding all fish in the hobby - especially tangs lately

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I can recall when I first started keeping fish 13 yrs ago.....the selections were very diverse between LFS's as every shop had some thing different to offer not only in americans but afro's too.

Nowadays its the same poor quality sh!t no matter where you go and this has caused me to lose interest in keeping fish in the last 2-3yrs.

Ive never bred fish for sale but only for personal keeping.

breeders selling generic garbage to the LFS is whats killing the quality.....all I ever see is convicts, Oscars, rivs, washed out red devils and the short list goes on.

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