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goldenswimmers

A tale of two Gold Heads...Muzi and Mutondwe...

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Just wanted to get a little discussion going on some Alto Comp varieties that I may have recently got mixed up or maybe not :eek:..but figure if I get some other comp lovers/keepers/ex-keepers on board then it could be a good learning/knowledge sharing conversation :noidea:...

I recently brought some "Mutondwe" Alto Comps interstate and after getting confused by google i'm beginning to think they may just be the Muzi variety..or the Mutondwe variety or the Muzi variety or :faint: Im waiting to get them nicely set up and comfortable as I am noticing they are staying light coloured(tank has no substrate/background)and want to see them in a different surround...

Heres a little map showing some locational varieties:

4911f272c6766

One thing that's adding to the confusion is the orangey tips to the tail and end of dorsal fin region...but I have seen this in examples of Muzi hence thinking it might be these guys...but then I found a thread on a cichlid forum in Europe https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cichlidsforum.fr%2Fexplications-sur-ceci-merci-t30301.html&edit-text=&act=url showing Mutondwe from the lake like this too...but the images looked like Muzi!?!?..so this makes me feel :eek::noidea::faint:....I think part of the problem might be the guys getting the actual fish from the lakes and mislabelling or is the lake just that complex and you can catch different variations of fish and in the end its one and the same :noidea:

So heres what I am starting to think are the real Mutondwe:

A.%20compressiceps%20Mutondwe%20Golden%20Head.jpg

Altolamprologus%20compressiceps%20golden%20head.jpg

and the Muzi:

(dark colour)

Altolamprologus_2012_07_25_123e2.jpg

(light colouring)

Altos009resized.jpg

And the what about Gold head "Kasanga":

DSC_0081.jpg

Damn this can get confusing as I see on google many fish under different names that look the same and are even the same images :eek:

Edited by goldenswimmers

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There's not much I can add to this thread but I am looking at some gold head comps for my new set-up so I'll be checking this thread for some enlightenment.

All that said I know that if I find the Muzi I'll be a happy camper.

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ID of a variant from pictures can be difficult. There are pictures of mutondwe that show different colours, possibly as they grow. Look for old posts here be herefishiefishie.....

I would stick with the ID they were bought as.

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mate i like ur work but unless ur are buying WC with certificate or F1 from certified parents im not sure you will ever know. tank bred inbred linebred can/could be playing silly buggers with u here as to who has what colours where. just my 2 cents. nice fish either way whatever u call em :)

Edited by kasman

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What a pain in the love cushions ..the joys of not being allowed any wild caughts to go by..Im guessing each group is like a little tribe controlling an area of the lake and so on the edges of each territory there is probably naturally crossing of varieties and possibly even varieties that are in effect a variety of their own but are placed in to one of the "known" types..:noidea:

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ID of a variant from pictures can be difficult. There are pictures of mutondwe that show different colours, possibly as they grow. Look for old posts here be herefishiefishie.....

I would stick with the ID they were bought as.

I like your thinking mate..if things keep getting chopped and changed on personal things in a sense we jeopardize any real strains...but I do feel this could all lead to one group:"gold heads" in the future..thanks to our situation with importing..

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goldenswimmers- I think part of the problem might be the guys getting the actual fish from the lakes and mislabelling or is the lake just that complex and you can catch different variations of fish and in the end its one and the same

Great thread Goldy.

My take on it is that peeps like to select the most colourful or interesting fish to take a pic of. This extends from collection to selective breeding.

But First, determine if the pics are correct and correspond. We don't know if the pics are from Genevelle himself or off the net or someone elses? he has not credited or referenced. The map and pics created by him is good and shows the corresponding fish locations for all except the Malasa pic. That same fish pic is in one of Konings books labelled as Chaitika...

Your comments on 'collection mislabelling', has the assumption and may have some truth, but when fish are collected (at least by one collector) they are done so species quota per order. Collection sites as you can understand are guarded, so the aparent locality name may come from the closest nearby village or beacon. Some are obvious, like Fulwe Rocks, whilst others are approximate eg. Moba gibberosa[/]

'..different variations..'

As my first line - select the best looking or most interesting... same species and location, just a unique individual. But I do believe the majoritory are distinctly different colour varieties for different locations though you can have very similar looking fish eg. gold sexfasc are known from the Kipili area, all exhibit the gold /yellow colour. Move west to Congo or South to Zambia, the yellow gold is the same or less intense, but still the same species. When I kept them before, we just called them as gold sexfas from Kipili. But then there are the blue sexfas. existing side by side with the golds - same species, totally different colour morph.

Also take into consideration the four countries circumfrenting the lake, each has its own dominant language and the numerous others (3 for Burundi, near 50 Zambia, over 100 Tanzania, to over 200 in Congo). So multiple names for the same location. Kinyamkola is Mpulungu in a different language. Mutondwe is Crocodile Island (same as per the link above). So for the traders to spice things up, let's call it something fresh to the different countries... eg. GM to Holden to Vauxhall to Opel.

Then we have the hobbyists - that are very quick to blame someone else for the problem or come up with their own conclusion or name... like yourself here goldy and your buddy Razzo (Black Congo White Pearl calvus) that have the capacity to 'clean' up a photo. Peeps read it and because you are a Moderator, must be golden... so a new tag sticks.

I say put the ownous back on whoever you got them from. Post it up and they can deal with it as karma - good or bad. I think only then will peeps keep it real if we are to sustain our small pool of varieties.

Having read elswhere that the Biosecurity screening and batch testing will be implemented next year, makes it even more crucial that we work to keep quality and true lines going.

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They were all dark bodied most of the time.

Purchased from petlink via Sydney as gold heads over 7 years ago, I sold them to Trevor fishfinatix

Edited by tutters187

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Then we have the hobbyists - that are very quick to blame someone else for the problem or come up with their own conclusion or name... like yourself here goldy and your buddy Razzo (Black Congo White Pearl calvus) that have the capacity to 'clean' up a photo. Peeps read it and because you are a Moderator, must be golden... so a new tag sticks.

All good stuff Ian but this part lost me...I think making a photo look its best is personal choice and certainly doesn't "create" a new variety of fish..and my buddy Razzo :noidea: is just a tang lover from the US who happened to get wild caught fish from the lake..so that's leap years ahead of our situation we have here...all I am doing is commenting on the situation with these guys..it worries me because even this maintaining of true bloodlines etc means nothing what so ever if somewhere along the way the wrong information was given..or even worse a fish was crossed..the black calvus thread was a classic example of this..who has been looking at different varieties of black calvus??..and its obvious they exist..people that get wild caught fish get to see this..I agree with going with any info you are given prior from owners/breeders etc because in the end this is all we have to work with unfortunately..just the situation we have here in oz...I'm sticking with mutondwe for my little guys..I do trust this suppliers respect for different varieties and the importance of maintaining this..

Edited by goldenswimmers

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