Jump to content
thaiga

Asian arowanna now we know.

Recommended Posts

There is more to this than that referenced article lets on.... They prosecuted with legislation they thought would hold. This is not the first fish that has been confiscated which may well explain why they went to such lengths to prosecute over this fish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can someone explain...

If it has a chip - it means it was bred on a farm in Asia legally

AND

If it has a chip - it means it was brought in from overseas which isn't allowed

If it doesn't have a chip - it means either it was bred illegally in Asia

OR

If it doesn't have a chip - it means it was bred here in Australia legally

Either way the person who owns the fish gets charged and the fish is destroyed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can someone explain...

If it has a chip - it means it was bred on a farm in Asia legally

AND

If it has a chip - it means it was brought in from overseas which isn't allowed

If it doesn't have a chip - it means either it was bred illegally in Asia

OR

If it doesn't have a chip - it means it was bred here in Australia legally

Either way the person who owns the fish gets charged and the fish is destroyed?

That is right. As mentioned above - there is more to this story... This is not the first fish that was seized. They used legislation they believed would result in conviction and substantial fine. They used CITIES legislation as it is far more severe (penalty wise) than DAFF regs. They wanted to send a warning. They would have been prosecuted under different legislation had there been a chip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing is that nobody is licensed to breed them in Australia. If someone was found to be breeding them that would result in different prosecutions. They are using the law to make it clear that they do not want these fish here. They know they are smuggled. They use the laws as they are drafted to best prosecute their case. Wish they'd clamp doen on Peacock Bass. Only reason they haven't I believe is they don't want them all dumped into creeks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shon982 But the ultimate flaw is that regardless of having a chip or not, the laws don't make sense

The laws do make sense. They used a particular law they believed would result in the most severe penalty. They would have used completely different laws to prosecute had their been a chip. Either way there is no grey area here. These fish can not be imported - they can not legally be bred here - as a result all are illegal and there are numerous relevent pieces of legislation that can be used to prosecute under the various scenarios.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also what makes breeding arowana different from any other species in Australia? Whether they come in legally or not? Is it specifically because arowana are endangered overseas in the wild?

I could hardly believe anyone would be releasing their prized fish into a river, let alone the fish actually surviving the water parameters ...arowana in this example but applies to many other species... Half the time they don't even survive in our own tanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But why not breed them so they aren't smuggled into Australia or captured from the wild?

Very simply - they do not want these fish here. You can find a posting elsewhere on this forum that outlines the full list of fish that are not meant to be here and are not allowed here.

Every allowed species is evaluated on risk. There is enormous risk with Asian Arowana. They are very closely related to Australian Arowana and this is one factor. Disease. Inbreeding potential.

Second factor is risk to environment if released - size - ability to breed - predatory nature on native fish stocks.

Price is no factor to risk. Price is elevated due to "banned" status. A redtail catfish at $1000 will do enormous damage if released.

Giant Gouramis are available on Asian Wholesale lists last time I looked at little over $1.25au.

This is a big can or worms as almost all Cichlids in the industry are not allowed to be imported. If they wanted to they could clamp down on it all - even Electric Yellows.

This is unlikely to happen but they most certainly WILL be clamping down on the so-called "GREY" species we all know are being smuggled in (and rightly so given the risk to the environment.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very simply - they do not want these fish here. You can find a posting elsewhere on this forum that outlines the full list of fish that are not meant to be here and are not allowed here.

Every allowed species is evaluated on risk. There is enormous risk with Asian Arowana. They are very closely related to Australian Arowana and this is one factor. Disease. Inbreeding potential.

Second factor is risk to environment if released - size - ability to breed - predatory nature on native fish stocks.

Price is no factor to risk. Price is elevated due to "banned" status. A redtail catfish at $1000 will do enormous damage if released.

Giant Gouramis are available on Asian Wholesale lists last time I looked at little over $1.25au.

This is a big can or worms as almost all Cichlids in the industry are not allowed to be imported. If they wanted to they could clamp down on it all - even Electric Yellows.

This is unlikely to happen but they most certainly WILL be clamping down on the so-called "GREY" species we all know are being smuggled in (and rightly so given the risk to the environment.)

Hmm yeah makes sense about things like RTC and Arowana as you point out

I guess that's why they fall under "exotics"

But I can't see electric yellows surviving and posing a threat to the environment lol

I say that because some of the fish I keep aren't "banned" in Australia but just not allowed to be brought to Australia like you mention such as 90% of the fish already here

But if they can't survive in a aquarium tank given the right water conditions - let alone breed... what makes it possible for them to do the same in completely different environments locally?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm yeah makes sense about things like RTC and Arowana as you point out

I guess that's why they fall under "exotics"

But I can't see electric yellows surviving and posing a threat to the environment lol

I say that because some of the fish I keep aren't "banned" in Australia but just not allowed to be brought to Australia like you mention such as 90% of the fish already here

But if they can't survive in a aquarium tank given the right water conditions - let alone breed... what makes it possible for them to do the same in completely different environments locally?

Actually some Africans are already found in native waterways and Yellows etc., could potentially thrive. Many native waterways have suitable water parameters. I do think the list of Africans allowed is absurd - why is a Rusty Cichlid (importable) less risk than a Yellow? Ridiculous I know..

As to the second part of your post - fish that can't breed in tanks due to size restrictions can easily do so in large waterways. I'm not going to list the species with potential as their are idiots around that might try it - but suffice to say that list covers it. Arowana could easily breed in dams and rivers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree to an extent but meanwhile the fish I actually see in the waterways are quite legally allowed to be imported(Oscars,mollies etc etc) so to say it is based on environmental impact..is only half the truth..or half the excuse...laws just don't make sense no matter how you look at it...and best way to stop smuggling...don't let the smuggled goods be legal once they are smuggled in...pretty contradictory set of laws right there...there are many great fish that aren't legally allowable as imports yet would not thrive here as conditions required are too specific and even then does this factor in the personality of native fish in anyway...some of these guys would just supply feeders to make bigger barramundi or even gudgeons....Australian fish have quite pretty nasty personalities from what I have seen...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So... you spend years looking for a fish, spend an absurd amount of your hard earned money if one does ever come up for sale, then throw it in the Brisbane River if you think someones going to take it off you???

That's the biggest crock of $hite right there.....

EVERYONE empty your tanks and we'll all just keep Rainbows yeah?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

heres a few prominent rivers that contain exotic fish strait from 'fresh water fishes of north eastern australia" from the centre of riverine landscapes, griffith university 2004.

i just picked out a few rivers that had a number of types of exotics

bloomfield river

established

eastern gambusia

guppy

swordtail

platy

oscar

tilapia

black mangrove cichlid

trinity inlet, cairns creeks

established

eastern gambusia

guppy

swordtail

platy

jewel cichlid

tilapia

black mangrove cichlid

bhole river, ross river, cleveland bay streams

established

eastern gambusia

guppy

platy

midas cichlid

oscar

burton's haplochromis

jewel cichlid

tilapia

three-spot gourami

failed/uncertain

green terror

convict cichlid

banded cichlid (heros severus)

firemouth cichlid

brisbane/bremer rivers

established

eastern gambusia

guppy

swordtail

platy

tilapia

failed/uncertain

sailfin molly

blue acara

this is just what was confirmed by those researchers around 10 years ago and is by n means a complete list

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was enquiring about this with the fisheries dept and it seems its risky to buy one especially with the $$$$$ involved. Thats why i settled for my poor man's arowana as the next best thing. If i have bought one last year, i may be worried each day having the feds to knock on my door as its the feds jurisdiction. I even borrowed a scanner from a vet just to check that but its good that i changed my mind and the other buyer took it - not sure who that is but likely one of our collectors here.

I have not heard of anybody being prosecuted though so you buy at your own risk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I knew this fish, and I hate the fact it was smuggled here to die.

It wasnt just a fish.

Just as a tiger is not just a cat.

Or a rhino is not just a cow.

This is a worldwide problem

San Diego Man Convicted for Selling Endangered Fish on Craigslist | NBC 7 San Diego

As to the crew that removed and destroyed the fish, they took no glee from the proceedings.

It was not a good experience for any involved.

A wake up call though.

It was a CITES appendix 1 animal.

Appendix I lists species that are the most endangered among CITES-listed animals and plant. They are threatened with extinction and CITES prohibits international trade in specimens of these species except when the purpose of the import is not commercial, for instance for scientific research. In these exceptional cases, trade may take place provided it is authorized by the granting of both an import permit and an export permit.

The last part of the article..........

Judge Everson said the penalty needed to deter people "committing offences involving the commercial trade in endangered wildlife".

I hope it does.

After all is said and done, the smuggling trade NEVER puts the welfare of the endangered species first.

Its just about money.

Meeting this fish and then having it destroyed was probably the lowest point in my time working in lfs.

As the enormity of the situation was revealed it was just horrible.

Pointless death of a beautiful fish.

Unless it serves as a warning and deters others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So... you spend years looking for a fish, spend an absurd amount of your hard earned money if one does ever come up for sale, then throw it in the Brisbane River if you think someones going to take it off you???

That's the biggest crock of $hite right there.....

EVERYONE empty your tanks and we'll all just keep Rainbows yeah?

You seem to miss the whole point... take Peacock Bass. Once they were selling for big money. Now they are everywhere and it has got to (or is fast getting) to the point where there are going to be far more breeding than the market will take. What happens then? In an ideal situation they are culled /owners stop breeding / used as feeders for fish in tank (not ponds!). Potentially another outcome - people don't want to kill their fish so they are released into waterways. You don't have to look far to see it - view forum posts under native section - some people can't stand to even kill Gambusia that they have caught in creeks in the first place!!

Some on this forum may not care for native species but many of us do.

If you were debating the ridiculous laws that say Rusty Zebras are importable but Electric Yellows aren't I would agree with you.

I certainly do not agree with you when you are referring to the species this post is actually about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites






×
×
  • Create New...