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smicko

balloon/jellybean variants

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Hi all, thought I might start a discussion about the rise of deformed fish for sale.

So far I have seen mollies, convicts and even parrots in jellybean form.

What are peoples thoughts on these fish?

Personally i think they should have been culls and not linebred.

Do these deformities shorten life span or create other health issues?

All input from both sides appreciated.

Cheers mick

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Breeders won't produce if there isn't a demand so is this thread aimed at fish keepers or line breeding?

Fancy goldfish is an example of line breeding taken to incredible results.

Hybrids, line breeding, trendy fish etc all reduce over fishing of wild caught species. Fish farming provides more sustainable jobs than fish collecting.

If a fish farm produces exactly the same product that can be plucked out of a river/lake (at half the cost) then why would people buy from a fish farm?

How many forum members like pearlscale goldfish but dislike balloon mollies? Can they explain why?

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Breeders won't produce if there isn't a demand so is this thread aimed at fish keepers or line breeding?

Fancy goldfish is an example of line breeding taken to incredible results.

Hybrids, line breeding, trendy fish etc all reduce over fishing of wild caught species. Fish farming provides more sustainable jobs than fish collecting.

If a fish farm produces exactly the same product that can be plucked out of a river/lake (at half the cost) then why would people buy from a fish farm?

How many forum members like pearlscale goldfish but dislike balloon mollies? Can they explain why?

Aimed at both sides, there is obviously a demand for them. My question is why?

If they came in a batch of my fry i would cull so is the problem breeders for wanting the quick buck following trends?

I suppose most fish keepers wouldn't understand what it's doing to the fish so as hobbyists should there be more education to show what the deformities do to the fish?

As for line bred goldfish they are like hybrids, the first gens are crap but once they reach flowerhorn level or ryukin level they are trade accepted.

The difference being that jellybean/balloon are trade accepted from first gen.

Just my thoughts and I'm open to all opinions, i might learn something along the way.

Cheers mick

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Aimed at both sides, there is obviously a demand for them. My question is why?

If they came in a batch of my fry i would cull so is the problem breeders for wanting the quick buck following trends?

I suppose most fish keepers wouldn't understand what it's doing to the fish so as hobbyists should there be more education to show what the deformities do to the fish?

As for line bred goldfish they are like hybrids, the first gens are crap but once they reach flowerhorn level or ryukin level they are trade accepted.

The difference being that jellybean/balloon are trade accepted from first gen.

Just my thoughts and I'm open to all opinions, i might learn something along the way.

Cheers mick

The problem I face most when talking to people about thus side of fish keeping, mostly just those starting out, is that they believe that they are just fish and it doesn't matter because they believe they don't have the capacity to feel pain or what not.

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Has anyone seen the documentary earthlings? According to jaoquin, from should have very similar pain receptors to that of humans. If they feel pain the same. Haven't done further reading to back up this claim however it is a pretty reputable doco.

On the same point... Are humans born with a deformity in constant pain? Well sometimes yes. Should we cull humans if they are in pain? Probably not.

Is a fish's life comparable with that of a human? That's for the individual to decide.

I am very, VERY against dieing fish and will have some very Stern words with any store I see selling them. However, the comparison [MENTION=11301]Lictoga[/MENTION] said before made me think. In my opinion, no it isn't as bad as dying... But is still bad. I have bought balloon fish in past however and did not have an issue supporting the selling of balloon fish. I probably won't buy again but can see why people do. Deformed fish are a part of the hobby now... Look at short body fish or even batman rays

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Why? ... the oddity & cuteness is what engages and holds interest for many. In the case for goldfishes, bonsai flowerhorns, short body red tail catfishes etc, many also find the unique body shape to be very attractive.

Personally as long as the fish is not overly restricted physically, certain types of short body fishes can make interesting breeding projects.

Even with short body fishes, culling should still be implemented to prevent swimming issues; on most occasions, fish with too short of a body usually develop a severely misshaped swim bladder. One judging criteria for goldfishes is deportment & this further promotes breeders to breed more balanced fishes.

Anyhow back to enjoying my goldfishes & short body albino longfin bristlenoses :behindsofa:

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I might be very wrong here, but I believe the market for balloon fish was originally for high density, small living space communities, where people are very restricted on the size of aquaria that could have in their apartments. Many people like the full sized fish, but lacked the space for a large aquarium. Just my theory (or possibly one I over heard and forgot the conversation so have adopted it as "my" theory.

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What I want to know is, why do people think the fish would be in constant pain? With the lack of support of air (compared to water) in the terrestrial lifestyle, significantly larger weight causing more pressure on the spine and vertical posture of humans there is a lot in favour of being a fish who is deformed than a human. I simply do not find it plausible that they would be in constant pain. At least I should say that the comparison between the experiences of a fish and human is quite an assumption to make, although I am currently assuming that people believe it causes them pain because some humans with scoliosis/kyphosis/lordosis etc. are in constant(?) pain.

Edited by GrandLocomon
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It's the same a tattooing a fish of injecting dye to me

How is tattooing a fish any different from cattle being branded, castrated and ear tags inserted?

And out of curiosity, if I started producing 2 headed turtles or three eyed tetras, how many forum members would be interested?

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I have a giant gourami with a deformed tail. When i first bought her i was sad with the quality... Now i would never change it and love that my gpg has something unique and quirky... And it certainly doesnt effect her.

Each to their own, some people would have seen that and culled it, but now it is an intelligent creature who lives a happy life.

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I have a giant gourami with a deformed tail. When i first bought her i was sad with the quality... Now i would never change it and love that my gpg has something unique and quirky... And it certainly doesnt effect her.

Each to their own, some people would have seen that and culled it, but now it is an intelligent creature who lives a happy life.

My Oscar has a slightly twisted lower jaw and I love it, like you wrote each to their own.

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