Parallel vs serial filtration?

[fishfriendzzz]

Hi.

This may be a little off topic but maybe fits under water quality? Always hard to know! Anyway, i have recently been tweaking one of my tanks, it's sump and returns. It got me wondering on a point of filtration. Would there be any difference between running filtration in parallel to running it in series?

Let me give you an example. And no, i'm not looking for a solution, i have one 'in the works', as they say.

Up until me tweaking, i have been using both a canister and a sump with the tank, both running indepentantly with separate intakes and outlets. Part of the tweaking i did to the sump return boosted it's return rate to above what becomes a comfortable minimum water level for the sump. The soon to be replaced sump isn't big enough to safely hold the extra water to compensate without the risk of flooding in the event of power loss etc. After fidding a bit, i ended up returning half the flow of the sump to the first sump chamber, plus moving the canister outflow to the first chamber of the sump. (Yes, i know, not super safe.) In effect, the canister and to a lessor extent the sump, have become continuations of the 'filter basket' rather than separate elements of it.

All that left me open with a question: would there be any actual difference? Would the levels of nitrifying bactetia and co. change through different areas or would they all eventually more of less even out?

Ideas?

[aquaholic99]

Once you achieve zero ammonia and nitrite, you can't improve the efficiency.

[Donny@ageofaquariums]

Agreed.

Better to then work on oxygenation and floodproofing.

A bit of time spent silencing and prepping for power cuts pays off in longterm too.

[Delapool]

I've wondered on this if the mechanical filtration may be better as there is more polishing?

[fishfriendzzz]

Thanks all. I agree that beyond a certain point efficiency can't be improved. However... This is a turtle tank. He's messy. Very messy. In spite of my best attempts, its not infrequent to find uneatten food which in turn contribute to blips in various levels. There is an added complication that my turtle is on strong antibiotics that primarily target gram negative bactetia. The information i've found in relation to the antibiotics use in people stated around 85% of the antibiotic is excreted unusued and unchange by the kidneys. I haven't found comparable figures for its use with reptiles but i doubt there'd be a vastly greater take up. All in all, biofiltration has to be vastly overdone to compensate, and even then its still struggling with spikes. There is also an internal filter though its principally for circulation and mechanical filtration.

As i said, i'm not looking for a solution, there is alway one on the way. I guess i am more curious about this from an intellectual rather than practical perspective.

[aquaholic99]

There are several different ways to solve your issue but I'd start with some good hard core study so you can determine which is the best in your situation. Some turtle keepers feed in a separate feeding tub. The main tank never gets dirty. How much to feed is also hard without experience. Just because food is eaten doesn't mean it's digested or required. Over feeding not only polluting living conditions and increasing maintenance but prompts too fast growth and reduced lifespans. I rotate mine in a cage on grass twice a week as they seem to enjoy the change as well as necessary sunlight (UV).

Some turtle keepers use a flow through system. No need for filtration, just refill either automatically or manually. A little chlorine isn't bad. You can re-use waste water elsewhere if you wish.

Are you injecting the antibiotic? You almost always need a humidity and temp crib when treating. Hopefully you are sorting the cause not just the symptoms.

Australian Freshwater turtle forum has a lot of knowledgeable people provided your willing to take criticism and learn.

Edited October 6, 2015 by aquaholic99

[aquaholic99]

Feeding tub needs water as they can't eat on land.

Edited October 6, 2015 by aquaholic99

[fishfriendzzz]

Thank you for your detailed reply and photo aquaholic. I have extensively read, researched, discussed, reviewed and had reviewed by 2 different vets, including a reptile specialist, all aspects of husbandry, feeding, treatment and management of my turtle. He is, as they say, a challenge. He is soon moving to a new environment specifically designed to cater for his special needs and even more special personality. Some of the issues, such as feeding, are unavoidable short term given his health and difficulty in taking food. His new environment will also better cater for this and reduce the potential for rapid adverse changes. Between this and with his recently completed roughly 2 square meter fenced, mulched, planted and shaded outdoor area, complete with basking spots and mini play pool, i am hopeful of him making a strong recovery. His new tank and outdoor areas are both huge steps up in size, conditions, and similarities to a natural environment. Once again, thank you for your suggestions, but i am not looking for a solution. I am really only curious about what effect, if any, there would be in changing from parallel to serial filtration, in any hypothetical situation, not mine specifically. For example, would the canister, as more of a primary intake, when operating in serial, develop a larger (relatively) bacterial population due to it being a first point if contact? Would the sump loose bacterial density as at least some of the water passing through it had already been treated? It's a purely theoretical matter i am curious about, not a practical implementation.

[Donny@ageofaquariums]

Without knowing which microbe species you cant even begin to guess which media biotype they will prefer..... and thats just the first of many weird and wonderful variants that would decide the answer.

[aquaholic99]

I wouldn't worry about filtration on an area such as you describe. Its big enough that plants and mud (best filtration ) will take care of it.

[fishfriendzzz]

Yes, very true, there'd be many variables. That's somewhat of a pity. The idea of all the liitle bacteria colonies migrating to greener pastures would be intriuging to visualise, not that there is any real way too this side of a computer simulation. I guess i must've watched microcosmos a few toooo many times! lol Cheers all!