grigby Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Read a lot about beef heart being bad for discus because of the high fat content, but makes them grow quick. The argument that discus don't jump out of rivers & eat cattle seems too simplistic. People don't jump on cattle in the paddock & eat them either, but we still consume a lot of it: I think moderation & variety is probably the key. Wondering if anyone has tried kangaroo meet on their discus? High in protein & low in fat: 1-2%, would seem perfect at first glance. I know they don't have kangaroos in the Amazon, they would be too quick anyway! Comments please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wogboy Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Bowl disease if they or we eat to much of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 sounds good in theory , reckon it would be worth a trial on them, i am currently converting my discus over to pea and prawn mix takes a while but apparently great results with colour good luck bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbunamad Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 [MENTION=3878]pk333[/MENTION]briztoon might like to throwup his 2 bobs worth. He is a Discus guru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pk333 Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 I am so far from being a discus guru it's not funny. I just comment a lot. And some times people mistake some one who talks a lot as some one who knows a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wogboy Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Is feeding a kangroo discus bad for skippy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pk333 Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 In regards to beef heart, I believe the protein content is 18% or there a bouts. You have to trim as much fat, and veins/arteries out as possible. I wouldn't use any lean red or white meat from land animals. You could try kangaroo heart. Personally I'd try prawns, salmon and other fish or invertebrates. I'm actually waiting to try the new Ocean Nutrion VHP (very high protein) frozen food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pk333 Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 [MENTION=3767]fishhead[/MENTION] you might be a vegetarian, but I sure as hell would jump on a cow, cook and eat it if it was in a paddock and it was a dooms day scenario. Modern humans are carnivores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 My understanding is cold blooded fish aren't well adapted to digesting warm blooded terestrial animals....body temp is not high enough to properly process fats(even small amounts)....discus do better than most fish if they are kept in warmer water, that they prefer Yes it will be cheaper to get rapid growth than aquatic equivalents..... but fish feed this diet are likely to have a reduced life span....this may not worry those looking for turn over I believe feeding fish terestrial meat is about "more bang for the buck" than what is the best for longevity.... I wouldn't feed it to any of my fish....but I don't have discus....and I'm not looking for any return on investment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigby Posted October 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 I am not a vegetarian, but would rather live to 70 eating meat than to 100 eating rabbit food all my life: it's quality not quantity that counts, in my opinion. (I'm 60, so had to used 70 as the target;ha ha). Discus love beef heart (but not as the sole food source), they chase me up & down the tank for it. Would rather robust healthy looking fish living for 7 years, than mediocre skinny fish living 10 years. There are many skinny undernourished discus making the rounds. 35% of Americans are obese, 1 in 4 deaths are from heart disease, 1 in 3 from cancer etc; these are man made diseases. As a species we know better, but don't seem to give a toss: the human race is sicker than it has ever been (watch John Bergman's many videos - the sixth wave etc). So I am giving my discus beef heart (occasional kanga), black worm, blood worm, occasional brine shrimp and discus gran. If they outlive me I'll let you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORANGEMELLY Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I am drawn to and keen on eventually getting discus - heaps more research yet...I saw this video: an interview with Mark Weiss and he goes in depth on feeding discus..food specific part starts at 17 min 15 sec .....I am thinking that shrimp and adult shrimp will make up the bulk of my discus fish diet - when I get them ....one day....hopefully not too far away ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grubby Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I think feeding meat to Aquarium fish is as out of date as feeding Ant Eggs to them. We have so much better foods these days for them, why bother. Then there is the issue of Hole in the Head Disease and its link to Mammal protein. Give me live food like mozzie larvae and daphnia, or quality flake or good frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp etc anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I think feeding meat to Aquarium fish is as out of date as feeding Ant Eggs to them. well time to throw this out then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grubby Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 well time to throw this out then![ATTACH=CONFIG]69359[/ATTACH] No that is really cool. http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Ant_eggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigby Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I get that times have moved on & beef heart is old school. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work, its the quickest way to beef up the fish (no pun intended) and they might not last as long, but they sure look good. I am a fanatic about removing all the fat etc off the meat. Like I said before, humans have moved on a long way in our food availability & nutrition since the 60's, but we have gone backwards, health wise: humans are sicker than ever, more diseases, more pills, the list goes on........... New doesn't always mean better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lictoga Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Seriously dude. You just completely missed the last 100 years of human life progression. News flash people get sick and die, shocker. The reason people seem to be sicker is there is more marketing and awareness and talking about illness now. 30 years a go no one talked about ****. Now there is a new awareness campaign every 5 seconds. Fish don't possess the ability to fully digest land based animal protein, it's a temp issue I believe as well as dietary enzymes. As for bulking up fish it's not hard dude brine shrimp, black worms and mozzie larva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grubby Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Seriously dude. You just completely missed the last 100 years of human life progression.News flash people get sick and die, shocker. The reason people seem to be sicker is there is more marketing and awareness and talking about illness now. 30 years a go no one talked about ****. Now there is a new awareness campaign every 5 seconds. Fish don't possess the ability to fully digest land based animal protein, it's a temp issue I believe as well as dietary enzymes. As for bulking up fish it's not hard dude brine shrimp, black worms and mozzie larva I wouldn't waste your time dude, nothing anyone will say will convince some people , it's appearance, over fish welfare clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pk333 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I am drawn to and keen on eventually getting discus - heaps more research yet...I saw this video: an interview with Mark Weiss and he goes in depth on feeding discus..food specific part starts at 17 min 15 sec .....I am thinking that shrimp and adult shrimp will make up the bulk of my discus fish diet - when I get them ....one day....hopefully not too far away ... Hey miss Melly, watch this video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigby Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I understand what you are saying and agree to a point. But fast food and obesity were not issues in the 60/70's. Before 1974, only store cards, Diners Club and American Express were available in Australia and these were either restrictive or only accessible to the wealthy; money was really tight when I was a younger. The last 100 years of so called progression, is not worth anything if we kill ourselves. Why is the percentage of people dying of cancer, heart disease, over medication etc rapidly rising: it's not because they didn't know, these are modern day afflictions. There is a lot more crap around now and everything has chemicals added. The U.S. obesity rate inched up to 27.7% in 2014, Australia is not far behind. My only point is that it's a lifestyle choice: whether that be fish or people. 30% of people make these poor choices every single day, to the point that it destroys their health and they don't give a dam: maybe we aren't as smart as we they think they are! Lictoga, you mentioned 100 years of progress; yes we have come a long way technologically, but in a sense of living in a sustainable environment, not a chance. We can live without technology, but not without a habitable environment. The rapid loss of species we are seeing today is estimated by experts to be between 1,000 and 10,000 times higher than the natural extinction rate and humans appear to be wholly responsible. Our arrogance makes us believe that we are above it and not part of it: our ultimate downfall I suspect. Humans are moving closer to the point of no return than ever before (some eminent scientists already believe it is too late): extinction isn't progress. We might be living longer, but in doing so we are killing off an awful lot on this planet: that is not sustainable. Last comment: I am not a Greenie, just recognise the folly of the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lictoga Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I understand what you are saying and agree to a point. But fast food and obesity were not issues in the 60/70's. Before 1974, only store cards, Diners Club and American Express were available in Australia and these were either restrictive or only accessible to the wealthy; money was really tight when I was a younger.The last 100 years of so called progression, is not worth anything if we kill ourselves. Why is the percentage of people dying of cancer, heart disease, over medication etc rapidly rising: it's not because they didn't know, these are modern day afflictions. There is a lot more crap around now and everything has chemicals added. The U.S. obesity rate inched up to 27.7% in 2014, Australia is not far behind. My only point is that it's a lifestyle choice: whether that be fish or people. 30% of people make these poor choices every single day, to the point that it destroys their health and they don't give a dam: maybe we aren't as smart as we they think they are! Lictoga, you mentioned 100 years of progress; yes we have come a long way technologically, but in a sense of living in a sustainable environment, not a chance. We can live without technology, but not without a habitable environment. The rapid loss of species we are seeing today is estimated by experts to be between 1,000 and 10,000 times higher than the natural extinction rate and humans appear to be wholly responsible. Our arrogance makes us believe that we are above it and not part of it: our ultimate downfall I suspect. Humans are moving closer to the point of no return than ever before (some eminent scientists already believe it is too late): extinction isn't progress. We might be living longer, but in doing so we are killing off an awful lot on this planet: that is not sustainable. Last comment: I am not a Greenie, just recognise the folly of the times. I agree with it ha lot of that. But the reason we have higher rates of cancer is that we actual know what it is and how to test for it, it's a commen and well documented process, if you test more you get more results. Not many people die of old age now it usual cancer or heart disease, and so on, we just have names for stuff now. Also I bet there was a hell of a lot more chemicals used in the 50-60s than in today in developed country's, DDT anyone? Also completely agree about overpopulation and unsustainable growth, one of the reason I won't have kids. We need a new global catastrophe to set a the scales in balance once more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lictoga Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 anyway sory for the thread derail. my view there are better ways for increaced fish growth and health other than feeding lnd based meat protien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORANGEMELLY Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I dont believe in the overpopulation stuff - i think that it is a dangerous myth - the sort that if left unchallenged will be the key to opening a pandora's box of the worst mankind has to offer - such as killing off the elderly and disabled...which sounds far fetched but is openly discussed as an option by the overpopulation zealots...... The problem is mismanagement of what we have, greed and unsustainable practices...there is enough for everybody...think about how much food gets thrown out in wealthier nations...or just put in land fill ... fed to pigs...etc... and countries like the USA grow products that are "fillers", sweeteners and preservatives such corn or plants which are grown for the sole purpose of making bio-fuels..only 5% of their total produce yield is actual food grown for human consumption... We are doing what we have done with our food to all our domesticated animals...just look at what is in dog biscuits - it rots their teeth...makes them fat - one of my dogs actually died from diabetes ...how does a dog get diabetes??? In our fish foods there are often products which are merely fillers, they have little benefit to our animals....as in the end $$$$$ always comes before doing the right thing by another living thing.... if it is cheap and we can get away with it, that is what we do....and if we want to do the right thing it is often beyond what most of us can afford.. To the topic at hand: whenever possible I believe we need to provide our fish with the closest representation (if not the real thing) of what they would eat in natural environment. Shrimp is the number 1 food eaten by all fish in every type of water....it is the foundation of the ecological food system, sustaining all water based life....the greatest diversity of aquatic life is always found where there are plentiful shrimp. ...that's my two cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigby Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) You cannot keep throwing more people on the planet, eventually the numbers cull themselves. Think of the planet as a finite resource, like your fish tank. Keep throwing more & more fish in without counterbalancing the biological load & hey presto they start dying off. A finite space can only hold so many inhabitants, no matter how good the biological load carrying capacity will be. According to the United Nations Population Division, the human population hit 7 billion on or around Oct. 31, and, if its projections are correct, we're en route to a population of 9 billion by 2050, and 10 billion by 2100. The maximum carrying capacity of the Earth, based on food resources, will most likely fall short of 10 billion. Somewhere something must change or crash! Mother nature is an efficient killing machine when ramped up: just imagine having 20 adult discus in a 100 litre aquarium, even with optimum filtration, you won't get far. The principles governing the planet & your fish tank are not that dissimilar: to many animals in a confined space = death & disease. And by all reports, our planet is not running on optimal levels. Interesting note: Some scientists believe that the global green house problem we are now experiencing is a result of 40 years ago, in that it takes 40 years for the effects of any changes to be noticed: so it may already be too late and there is nothing we can do: enjoy it while you can. Because if this is true, then there is a big ....storm coming. P.S. Power to Lictoga for not subjecting any of his possible kids to the coming disasters, that is a very caring and commendable attitude in my opinion. Edited November 17, 2015 by fishhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattzilla Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 i made my last batch of home made food with kangaroo fillet instead of beefheart and the fish seem to really like it. saying that, it's a small portion of the mix here is the mix i did this time roo fillet scallops with row attached white fish (can't remember which type i used) green prawns spirulina powder astaxanthin powder paprika egg yolk dried pellets (blended, as a binder) spinach peas fed in moderation i don't think it's a bad thing. hops that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigby Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Thanks for the mix, will try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
