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Time for a trader rule change - Hot Topic Friday on a Saturday!

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I am completely over people taking culls or low grade that are handed around and selling at a profit elsewhere. This practice is far too common and people praise Facebook and Gumtree when people buy culls from here and sell on those places.

These people are not good for the hobby.

I have two possible rule changes:

1. Anyone found buying culls or low quality fry from here and selling elsewhere will be banned from trader.

2. Anyone found buying and selling fry to make a profit from members will be banned.

At the moment I do not concern myself with the going's on elsewhere, but I am starting to feel that it makes the forum complacent in allowing trading of low quality fish to the ignorant masses on Facebook and Gumtree. I think I prefer option 1 as it is clear a misrepresentation, and there are times members want to clear a tank for various reasons..... I do not want to make things difficult for the volume quality breeders who want to move bulk fish, but am tired of the ongoing misrepresentation by various sellers on Facebook and Gumtree on selling poor quality fish from here.

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I am with you 100% on rule No.1 - those people are just wrong.

However, I have reservations regarding on No.2. I am about to sell a large number of my fry to someone for a $ value that I want. Now I know they will then on sale, I have no problem with this as I am selling a bulk load in one go, this way I don't have to put up with the endless time wasters. This is a genuine sell of quality F1 fish, I see no reason why the person I am selling to should get banned, as long as all parties are aware and in complete agreance, I see no problem.

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I would be happy to see rule one, its not going to be easy to police, would admin/mods be scoping out other sites to enforce or would members be able to report to admin/mods with a link to the sale post?

I have no issues with people reselling as long as I get the price I want, i used to give away culls but with people selling them or breeding them and selling fry it does alot of damage to the quality in the hobby so I no longer do it.

Why not bring in a rule that only quality livestock can be sold on the trader? every thread would have to have pics of the fry and/or adults.

It would put the forum in a leading by example position, then we will draw in people as they progress in the hobby and start wanting better quality or harder to find fish.

At the end of the day we can't control what happens anywhere else but we can make this forum be the best option for hobbyists to get quality livestock and knowledge/advice.

Viva la revolution (if it's still happening)

Cheers mick

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anybody can create some fictitious profile and use the forum to buy cheap low quality fish to on sell. this same person can go to other forums, gumtree, classifieds, etc. and you would not know that that's the same person who bought the fish that is now on-selling.

what im saying is this will be difficult to police. The only way i can see is if you are afraid that your fish is not good quality - do not offer it for anybody to take advantage of your generosity. feed it or cull them.

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I would be happy to see rule one, its not going to be easy to police, would admin/mods be scoping out other sites to enforce or would members be able to report to admin/mods with a link to the sale post?

I have no issues with people reselling as long as I get the price I want, i used to give away culls but with people selling them or breeding them and selling fry it does alot of damage to the quality in the hobby so I no longer do it.

Why not bring in a rule that only quality livestock can be sold on the trader? every thread would have to have pics of the fry and/or adults.

It would put the forum in a leading by example position, then we will draw in people as they progress in the hobby and start wanting better quality or harder to find fish.

At the end of the day we can't control what happens anywhere else but we can make this forum be the best option for hobbyists to get quality livestock and knowledge/advice.

Viva la revolution (if it's still happening)

Cheers mick

The pics do not mean a lot as a lot of these guys photoshop other peoples pics as a matter of course .

I have seen pics I have taken put up on dumtree ( edited slightly ) claiming that they were the parents of the fry he was selling .

This must have happened to others too !

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On selling quality fish is fine with me. On selling culls is pathetic and does a lot of harm.

The only way to irradicate that is by not giving away culls, as always the minority spoils it for the majority.

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I am with you 100% on rule No.1 - those people are just wrong.

However, I have reservations regarding on No.2. I am about to sell a large number of my fry to someone for a $ value that I want. Now I know they will then on sale, I have no problem with this as I am selling a bulk load in one go, this way I don't have to put up with the endless time wasters. This is a genuine sell of quality F1 fish, I see no reason why the person I am selling to should get banned, as long as all parties are aware and in complete agreance, I see no problem.

i agree as i've just sold off cheap fry due to cutting back for awhile , i have no issue with them being re-sold,

BUT as long as they are honest about it and not try to pass them off as their fry, i've bought cheap fry and kept what i wanted and sold the rest, (but not here)

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i agree as i've just sold off cheap fry due to cutting back for awhile , i have no issue with them being re-sold,

BUT as long as they are honest about it and not try to pass them off as their fry, i've bought cheap fry and kept what i wanted and sold the rest, (but not here)

I agree Steve. In my case I know the person I am selling to and trust them whole heartedly.

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This is just crazy

who are we to say what is a cull or not .. unless you have a PHD or have caught the fish yourself from that specific river or location ... what make you the expert of right or wrong ?

most catfish have not even yet been classified and go under a temporary number .. let alone the diff number of sub species or colour morphs (BIG CAN OF WORMS)

get real ... please don't start an issue that has no answer .

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The pics do not mean a lot as a lot of these guys photoshop other peoples pics as a matter of course .

I have seen pics I have taken put up on dumtree ( edited slightly ) claiming that they were the parents of the fry he was selling .

This must have happened to others too !

That is true, I've seen my pics used to sell fish but they must have been lazy as there was no changes.

If i turned up to buy something that look lower quality than the pics provided I wouldn't buy them and I'm sure most people would do the same, it wouldn't take long for people putting up dodgy to be found out.

Cheers mick

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This is just crazy

who are we to say what is a cull or not .. unless you have a PHD or have caught the fish yourself from that specific river or location ... what make you the expert of right or wrong ?

most catfish have not even yet been classified and go under a temporary number .. let alone the diff number of sub species or colour morphs (BIG CAN OF WORMS)

get real ... please don't start an issue that has no answer .

Picking a cull is easy, they are either deformed or low quality.

Going to buy something without knowing what a quality example looks like is a bad idea, i don't know what a quality example of every fish is but with a bit of research it wouldn't be hard to find out.

There is already alot of crossbreeding happening with L numbers so research is vital before handing over any cash, it's not hard to get onto sites that provide all the information on whatever fish you want to buy so when you pick them up you know if they are quality or not.

Cheers mick

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, i used to give away culls but with people selling them or breeding them and selling fry it does alot of damage to the quality in the hobby so I no longer do it."

Its a shame the people that do the right thing with the low quality giveaways get punished aswell tho. Im fairly new to the hobby...again xD (i was a massive enthusiast up until 6-7 years ago mainly breeding jaguar cichlids) and started again a couple of months ago and ive just discovered this low quality cull for feeders was even 'a thing' as ive been buying treats for my babies from my LFS :/ Maybe you could have a section where our members could put down their names for any that become available and the person giving them away could go through the names and pm those people to see if they are interested. It keeps it low key and the seller can select who they wish to pass their generosity onto.

I totally understand that we cant have low quality fish getting back into circulation as anything more than that but its a shame to see good food go to waste too.

Its a sad era for the fish keeping world, a little common decency goes a long way.

Sorry guys just my 2 cents as a born again newbie xD

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This is just crazy

who are we to say what is a cull or not .. unless you have a PHD or have caught the fish yourself from that specific river or location ... what make you the expert of right or wrong ?

most catfish have not even yet been classified and go under a temporary number .. let alone the diff number of sub species or colour morphs (BIG CAN OF WORMS)

get real ... please don't start an issue that has no answer .

@mrzeby

Please watch this video, just the next 3 minutes or so.

(have I mentioned just how awesome this video is. It has answers for almost everything in the hobby)

I'm not sure you fully understand the conversation here. We are talking about fish that we as breeders have bred and have identified as inferior quality fish in our grow outs. Fish that are weak and/or deformed in some way and should not kept and most definitely should not be bred from or sold in to the hobby.

Often breeders need to cull inferior quality fish. It might be only a small number or runts from a spawn, or it could be a whole spawn. Some times instead of just humanely killing these culls, a breeder might give them away for other hobbyists to use as live food for their large predator fish.

This thread is partially in response to a discussion that occurred in a give away thread of mine where some fish I gave away that were culls were then listed for sale on Gumtree by the person.

When I give away fish I have bred myself, and I consider culls, for some one else to use as feeder fish, and they pop up on Gumtree for sale, well...

Why do I consider them culls. Because a couple had short bodies, and most had a crooked top line, with a noticeable dip between body and head. These were a F2 sibling spawn from a show betta line, a line which I personally bought and imported (through Fishchick Aquatics) the original pair from a very well known Thai breeder who's stock often wins large International betta shows.

I have worked as a show steward at a number of local and (locally held) national and international betta shows over the last few years. Often I have shadowed the head judge or invited international judge. I believe I am a fair judge of bettas, and can identify poor quality stock and can certainly say which of my stock are culls.

Anyone who has been in the hobby for a while and is in to breeding should have a very good idea of what is a cull and what is a decent fish in their own spawns.

Edited by pk333

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What about people that photo shot or what ever it is or use a picture from the internet to sell there fish

If the fish look crap in person compared to the pic then don't buy them, it is a stuff around going to buy something and walking away empty handed but it wouldn't take long for people to work out who is using photoshop or google pics.

It's a small hobby and most people will look out for others so word travels fast.

Cheers mick

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New rule for trader.

Everyone breeding should be conscious enough to own a fry recycler. I strongly suggest dovii, murray or mary cod, or mangrove jack. Those with smaller tanks...... get an oscar

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, Maybe you could have a section where our members could put down their names for any that become available and the person giving them away could go through the names and pm those people to see if they are interested. It keeps it low key and the seller can select who they wish to pass their generosity onto.

I totally understand that we cant have low quality fish getting back into circulation as anything more than that but its a shame to see good food go to waste too.

xD

This "cull registry" is a good idea. I have some fish that can benefit on this.

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