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Cheap fish are killing this hobby

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Imagine having one of them old fashioned small owner-operated LFS in your neighbourhood where the owner is partly in it to make a living and partly in it to enjoy or further his/her hobby? These shops once existed. Then people abandoned them to purchase online or from larger commercial shops, to save a few dollars. The writing was on the wall years and years ago.

The small number of owner/operator hobbyist shops that remain……. spend a percentage of your hobby coins at them. Assuming they are honest about what they sell and don't buy/sell crap fish.

I couldn't agree more, after leaving the hobby 8 years ago and getting back into it last year. I was devastated to find my 2 favourite fish shops didnt exist anymore, by chance i found my long time friend that ran one and he told me he was pushed out by a big company petshop that opened up across the road. It is such a shame that the experience and knowledge of the hobby is dying

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There are those that bother to pass on their knowledge and help out the less experienced. And often we leave a written record.

Many of the same guru crew are still in the industry today. I heard rumor that butters was seen at smiths and cam is now out at gallery aquatica. Gary P is at guppies, Steve B is at downstream and Michael P is at the reef room. And then look at the sponsors here and people behind them!

The names may change but theres a real solid core of old guard in Brisbane. And they all know well what quality fish look like. I actually feel really positive about the future of the hobby in Brisbane. We are rather lucky.

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our prices are gunna be higher at the lfs cos we got aqis to deal with

the us dont have quarantine order a fish from thailand monday its at your door by friday just has to go thru a transhipper that signs off on the fish........good if you wanna keep a better quality fish for less $ bad in other ways.........They cant import fish from canada tho

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I couldn't agree more, after leaving the hobby 8 years ago and getting back into it last year. I was devastated to find my 2 favourite fish shops didnt exist anymore, by chance i found my long time friend that ran one and he told me he was pushed out by a big company petshop that opened up across the road. It is such a shame that the experience and knowledge of the hobby is dying

Shops have always come and gone , People start up a shop later in life when they have the experience then get to their 50s or 60s and can't or do not want to keep up the work required an want to move on , and the shop does not survive a change of ownership ( The good ones I am talking about , not the wishful thinkers who start a shop with no clue as to what they are getting into then go broke a couple of years later )

The change of ownership often fails because after 10 or 20 years they have adapted to their customer base and vice versa and someone new with all new ideas comes in and changes everything immediately because they think they can do it better , upsetting ( disappointing ) the customer base - they go elsewhere and the wonderful little mum and dad shop is gone . That leaves a gap , then somebody starts up a new shop , that does have a clue and the customers flock to it until that owner wants to move on .

It can work the other way too , an absolute dud shop can be bought by somebody who knows their stuff and turned around - it is not a static thing . The personality of the owners and staff have an influence on how the business goes too .

I could never own a shop - I just don't have the social niceties - I might know about fish , but I have no people skills , I would be broke after the first year !

You need to have both Aquarium knowledge and people skills or game over !

There is always a punter starting a new shop somewhere

My $00.02 .

If the shop is good support it if not let them know what your issue with them is (politely) If the issue remains or they are rude about it - go elsewhere !

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So cheap fish are not killing the hobby then..... ?

A lot of threads get derailed by hybrid discussions or inferior quality discussions. But lets face it... every single bristlenose in Australia is a deformed hybrid (if you compare it to the wild species). Does this stop people from keeping them?

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So cheap fish are not killing the hobby then..... ?

A lot of threads get derailed by hybrid discussions or inferior quality discussions. But lets face it... every single bristlenose in Australia is a deformed hybrid (if you compare it to the wild species). Does this stop people from keeping them?

I do not believe so - no !

As for Hybrids - If they are good healthy , deformity free fish being clearly sold as what they are - who cares - an aquarium is not the wild - hybrids have been around almost as long as the hobby .

Cheap fish can only benefit the hobby , but the quality has to be there - the problem is it is nearly impossible to get fish that are cheap , and good !

A lot of threads get derailed by hybrid discussions or inferior quality discussions.

It is you who injected this line into the thread - Flame bait ?

Edit - If the fish are rubbish , regardless of price they are not cheap !

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Cheap fish army killing the hobby.. It's the lack of public interest generally. So tell everyone you know to stop ruining your hobby!

maybe ask the government to float the industry. It's worked for others :P

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Too many issues under the discussion title.

We are hobbyists and generally we look around for the best fish at the best price be that 50c or $1K. If it what you are searching for to complete your aquarium that's it, no more discussion. Let's not forget that We, the hobbyist, are a consumer and will always be subjected to the costs from any commercial operator be that the lfs, importer or breeder. I think the problem is more that many hobbyist breeders want to make commercial profits from their hobby. I bought some fish off a hobbyist and collected from their home. The whole underneath of their house was tanks, mostly smaller breeding tanks. Part of the discussion was about the qty of fish sold to lfs's.

Although I want quality I also want comparative pricing. I have been in several well know lfs's looking at calvus and have had pricing from $22.95 to $89.95 each for similar sized fish.

My other concern is that none of the lfs's seem to identify locally tank bred fish from imported ones, in most cases. Imported German bred rams seems to be the only one I have seen advertised, opps also german bred orange lelupi. Maybe lfs's need to start identifying where the fish come from eg 'local QLD breeder' or 'NSW TANK BRED' or 'F12 stock local breeder'.

In any event as hobbyists yes it would be nice to have some return on our outlays. I rember Texas Taylor and Bill Denton giving fry away to new members of the Cichlid Club and people swapping fry between each other to build their stock and bloodlines. Now it seems who is willing tp pay for the priviledge.

If the new impot laws makes imported fish more expensive then that will flow to the lfs's and on to us. Don't forget the lfs is in it for a profit no matter how much they support the hobbyist. that doesn't meann locally bred fish need to follow suit and be more expensive.

I also belive that some deformed fish are being sold through lfs's. I was in a lfs on the weekend and looking at some young fish and everyone of the fish in the tank of the sp. I was interested had deformed mouths eg one side dropping, undershot lower jaw and open mouths unable to close properly and misshappen jaws. Some of the fish had lopsided heads. Very disconcerting.

But I do not belive cheaper fish from hobbyists is causing the problem nor is it public interest, I believe it is natural progression of an industry trying to keep alive hoping the hobbyists will continue to support it. Just look at BN'S, on gumtree you can get young BN's for $1, then look on QLDAF BN's young for $10 - $15 at the same size. Look at tanks at one lfs a 4x18x18 plus stand $935, on gumtree found several ranging from $70 - $200, yes I know they are 2nd hand still what's the mark up in lfs. It's like the jewellery store selling a 1ct diamond ring for $1200 and then advertising it at 60% mark down, makes you wonder what the real value is!

As pony-tail said 'my $00.02 worth.

cheers :rofl:

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Cheap fish aren't killing the hobby....

The hobby is evolving.....not necessarily for the better

The Internet means you can sell goods/livestock direct....you don't have to go to a local fish shop to buy or sell

You don't have to go to a fish club to learn how to keep and breed fish.....1,000's will tell you their opinion on Web-sites or Facebook...it could be Gold information or it could be a load of "codswallop".....(most is the latter)

The reduction in value of fish is due to the "Information Age"....it's a symptom

If the hobby is being killed....it is because there is far too much mis-information and not enough honesty

A deformed fish is a deformed fish....regardless of who advertises it

Edited by Rod

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No different to going to a shop to buy Rod, who is to say the shop was reputable and not selling misinformation and deformed fish. Have seen it before, shops although can be good can also be quite bad, selling your favourite deformed fish, or supplying a 60l tank with Oscar fry.

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It can be difficult in a lfs to guide a customer to do the best by their fish. People are easy to offend if you point out a plan sounds cruel. So I get it when lfs staff go along with a sale even though its not ideal. Its rare. But it is a thing.

Other times they are just doing the job and getting a sale.

You are lucky IMHO if you find a lfs person who shoots down a plan and offers a better course of action.

A wise man values brutal honesty in a salesperson, as it is not generally the norm in life.

Edited by Donny@ageofaquariums

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It can be difficult in a lfs to guide a customer to do the best by their fish. People are easy to offend if you point out a plan sounds cruel. So I get it when lfs staff go along with a sale even though its not ideal. Its rare. But it is a thing.

Other times they are just doing the job and getting a sale.

You are lucky IMHO if you find a lfs person who shoots down a plan and offers a better course of action.

A wise man values brutal honesty in a salesperson, as it is not generally the norm in life.

People are too easy to offend - That is why I could only work in the Quarantine room . Even at a wholesale level , shop owners are just as easily p155ed off and if you chase a customer away at a wholesaler it is a lot of $$ gone !

Some of the clowns that buy or start shops need advice to keep the fish from being killed - but it has to be done subtly - If they ignore the advice they go belly up another 1 year shop ! Help is out there but they will not take it , they already know all about fish keeping . I have had fish for 50 years and I still have heaps to learn ! these people have fish for a year or 2 and know it all , buy a shop and send it broke . Happened a lot when I was working in wholesale !

This has been happening since the beginning .

Farcebook and Dumtree will be having an effect the Store owners that can adapt will survive and thrive - those that can't , or won't adapt will go under , too bad too sad . They will get little sympathy from me .

The information they need to succeed is out there , readily available and mostly free . The internet is available to them as are Farcebook and Dumtree , A website is not that difficult ( a really good one is a little harder ).

Adapt or perish !

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Cheap fish or expensive fish I just want quality. Don't care if it's local/german/wild caught/asian etc.

What is quality though? No deformities is a given, then a lot of people go for colour. I would prefer to aim for shape/size first and then try for colour.

I think we all need to pick up our game, myself included when it comes to culling. I will put my hand up and say I'm sure to have missed something along the line.

Do you know what might help the hobby, a colour pictured primer on deformity, stunting, and optimal body shapes aimed at the seller and consumer per species. This would arm new and old breeders with a check list and give consumers a heads up on what to look out for.

Sorry if off tangent.

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With some fish there are examples of what quality fish should look like. For example bettas. There are standards for show bettas, but they don't take in to account the fancy varieties that don't belong to one of the show classes. And technically some of the fancy varieties are based on a deformity/mutation.

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post-353-14711634891357_thumb.jpg

It's not space science....;)

Which has the right body shape?

Poor Quality..... cheap fish aren't as big a problem as Poor Quality...... expensive fish

post-353-14711634891244_thumb.png

Edited by Rod

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We used to have one of them at Redcliffe owned by Paul ( do not know his last name )

Lots of Cichlids - Nice guy , good prices , not my kind of fish though ( he liked big cranky Americans ) .

Was still sad to see the shop go !

And don't forget the 2 to 3 foot long black sharks for $100!! Don't know where he used to get them but man I loved looking at them!!

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And don't forget the 2 to 3 foot long black sharks for $100!! Don't know where he used to get them but man I loved looking at them!!

He used to get the odd very large Sailfin Gibbi too .

I used to go in there a lot , My ex-wife used to run the record shop at the other end of the arcade .

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He used to get the odd very large Sailfin Gibbi too .

I used to go in there a lot , My ex-wife used to run the record shop at the other end of the arcade .

A part of the trade died when that shop closed. I mean the full grown gold severums you could always buy for $20; the tanks and tanks of large adult Mbenji Zebras - the Plecs as you say (forgot about that one). The only frustration with that shop is towards the later stages you'd drive up from Brisbane and it was always closed! There was another shop too - just over the Hornibrook bridge along the esplanade - they had a 6x2 or 8x2 with rare fish - nothing on Pauls but.. Is the one at Kipparing still going?

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