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gingerbeer

Cheap fish are killing this hobby

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100% pro-nemo.

Although I want everyone to acknowledge that the actual star of the movie was Marlin his dad.

Nemo was one of the greatest things to happen to the hobby. Kinda sucked for all the dories killed by n00bs but otherwise was rather positive overall IMHO.

Certainly made way more people care about the reef.

And all the clown fish that used to be found the seaway and such

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Little known fact ~ the only opinion on what makes a quality fish, that I actually agree with..... is my own.

I like wild caughts, bread and butter AND extreme line bred pets. They all have their cool moments and their lame ones.

I aint really a fan of keeping many Aussie natives in tanks, I find much of whats in lfs boring AND some fancy linebred strains are just crap and shouldn't be pursued further.

But thats just my opinion.

And no one else has to agree with it.

Do what gives you enjoyment in the hobby.

Just try spare a thought for the fish themselves.

You want happy fish!

:)

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And all the clown fish that used to be found the seaway and such

Maybe so..... but it also created a boom in clown fish breeders eager to fill the sudden hunger for nemo from the masses.

Why get a wildcaught when its twice the price and prob has parasites?

People who catch wild fish are always going to. Its often the catching they like, more so than the keeping. The keeping is more just an excuse to go catching.

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True but penalty rates on Sundays makes wages close to $50 an hour - where else in the world would be that expense.

What ever happened to enjoying our beautiful country on a Saturday and Sunday instead of everyone being open for trading and working? Need to go back 15 years, and get back to loving life and not working it away 😁!

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As I am often reminded, most people just want pretty fish, i.e. colours. They're not interested in show fish or what the "standards" are for a certain type of fish.

But there is a small percentage of keepers who do buy for quality and will invest the time and effort in to learning what a good quality specimen is meant to look like, regardless of what the species is.

Now if you talk to some one who is interested in showing fish and ask them what they look for in a fish, they will tell you form, first and foremost.

As for breeders, it's pretty much the same as keepers. Some just like to breed pretty fish. They have little or no interest in breeding show quality fish, or type specimen quality fish. That is usually left up to the specialist hobbyist who either breeds for show or is right in to a species, genus or type of fish and for them quality and form is just as important as colour, pattern, etc.

As for discus, I'm going to paraphrase the owner of Simply Discus; "Discus, their name means round. We want big round fish. A good indicator if your fish is (or will be*) round is the eye to body size ratio. We want an eye to body size ratio of 6 to 8. Where, if you stack the eye up and down the eye stripe you should be able to fit 6 to 8 eyes along the eye stripe. If you can't, the fish is not round and never will be round. Wilds (and wild hybrids) tend to have larger eyes so a 6 eye stack will be good. Fancy discus tend to have smaller eyes so looking more at 7 to 8 eye stack. We also want meaty fish. Fish that are thick like a steak slab. That's going a bit far, but adult discus should be solid, thick between the eyes."

*Young discus are not round, the older they are and the larger they grow the more round they become. Eye to body size ratio is still important with young fish. Small discus where you can only fit one or one and half eye stacks above it's eye have already been stunted (and are usually older than what you expect) and near impossible to grow out to correct shape and size.

This is a heckel cross (hybrid) but you can clearly measure how many eyes you can stack above and below it's actual eye. You can also plainly see it's round.

10325682_890447680995477_8214622861629630628_n_zpssl8lrgc6.jpg

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What ever happened to enjoying our beautiful country on a Saturday and Sunday instead of everyone being open for trading and working? Need to go back 15 years, and get back to loving life and not working it away 😁!

If you are a retail store that caters to a hobby, any hobby, most of your clientele are going to visit on their days off work, i.e. the weekend for most people.

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If you are a retail store that caters to a hobby, any hobby, most of your clientele are going to visit on their days off work, i.e. the weekend for most people.

This is clear, my point had nothing to do with that, it was more about how the way of life is going. We have bigger days during the week then weekends alot of the time now.

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I think some casual fish keepers would love to know what makes a "quality fish" when buying but good information isn't always easy to find even with our mate Google and some LFS hide their knowledge well.

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Do people need to be educated about what is a "quality fish" or do commercial breeders need to listen to what customers want? Hobbyist breeders can do what ever they want unless they want to supply fish for sale.

Anyway, it does appear that cheap fish are not killing this hobby. It would seem that statistically the aquarium hobby is actually on the rise. Statistics are very easy to skew of course. An increased population for example might be the true reason.

Don't think it has to be either or - I think you can have both of help educating and there is no harm in listening either.

Cheap fish is generally what brings people into the hobby but it is generally not what they have a year down the track.

Think about what was your first fish and now have a look in tank. A bit of difference i would think.

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This is clear, my point had nothing to do with that, it was more about how the way of life is going. We have bigger days during the week then weekends alot of the time now.

could be the people on your area are just rich kids not needing keep a regular 9-5 work. Would be interesting to see on a regular weekday a customer on a suit and tie just dropping by to get a fish.

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could be the people on your area are just rich kids not needing keep a regular 9-5 work. Would be interesting to see on a regular weekday a customer on a suit and tie just dropping by to get a fish.

Lol, no one in suits and tie's in Ipswich! We still get big weekends but Wednesday seems to rival Saturday sometimes.

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i hate buying malawi cichlids bulk, and then having all of them turn out to be females.

Very unusual.. if you are buying large numbers of various species and they are all female.. perhaps the seller is selling the smallest fish in the batch (often females).

With all 50+ species I breed I always get more males than females and in a mix of say 20 fish it would be very VERY long odds (It's never happened!) to get all one sex.. In fact I guarantee it!

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Very unusual.. if you are buying large numbers of various species and they are all female.. perhaps the seller is selling the smallest fish in the batch (often females).

With all 50+ species I breed I always get more males than females and in a mix of say 20 fish it would be very VERY long odds (It's never happened!) to get all one sex.. In fact I guarantee it!

That is a good general tip too - when buying fish and wanting a mix of sexes and not being able to sex them at the size resist the urge of wanting all the large ones. Get a mix.

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That is a good general tip too - when buying fish and wanting a mix of sexes and not being able to sex them at the size resist the urge of wanting all the large ones. Get a mix.

spot on john,

i always tell my buyers that i will give a mix of sizes,

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If you are happy with that fish and would be prepared to buy it....that's your prerogative ....but it doesn't make it any less deformed

Given the 2 fish shown would you still choose it if both fish were offered at the same price?

You couldn't pay me to take the fish you'd be Happy to own....I wouldn't waste tank space on it...it cost same to Keep a Good fish as a Poor one

and at least there is potential to breed a Good one

I like to select juvie fish with right body shape and good finnage.....I can accept poor colour and or condition

You can condition fish and provide conditions for colour to pop....but a deformed fish isn't going to change shape

Lucky for the Hobby there are many many more with your attitude..than mine...;)

If offered either fish for the same price I would take both, not sure if discus are great live bait but discus is baitfish to me! So to answer your question they are of equal value to me, but that value is next to nothing.

To each their own but I hate discuss, they probably hate me too though!

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What species do you like?

IMO every specie/variant there are Good examples and poor examples

Obviously some don't see a difference and some do but would still take the cheapest option

I can understand that if you are a fish keeper....but if you are looking to breed them, you might as well start with best examples possible...actual specie is a personal choice ;)

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