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Betta-Cray_z

The LFS Scene: Is It Fair?

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AOA came from a young man selling a box of heaters on ebay. Not a bad effort to get from that to this :)

Its true we have had a recent lfs mass extinction event. Those left have had to change to fill the void.

The hobby must live for the spice to flow.

As to the cause of the bubble popping?

I think there were many. Mail order for aquarium stuff is older than I am, and I be frail eh. If it was the cause it sure bided its time.

What you see as under cutting a lfs, is what the bigger hobbyists and breeders see as a good deal.

Personally I think the back yard breeders are the salt of the earth. Keeping them supplied with good levels of fish keeping firepower is a righteous endeavor, and a cause all forum sponsors take to heart.

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Well that lasted a Touch under 24 hours from start to finish fun times and we wonder why qldaf is dying a slow agonising death...... Make sure you all wash or hands before dinner and play nice with each other......

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Well that lasted a Touch under 24 hours from start to finish fun times and we wonder why qldaf is dying a slow agonising death...... Make sure you all wash or hands before dinner and play nice with each other......

I have been clear. A good debate is needed on this topic. I respect members like none who do not agree but do not attack. It is not that hard.....

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Personally i do believe lfs need to adapt with the drastically changing economy and retail market. They don't need to compete on proce with online, but some can be better priced. Not everyone knows about online stores nor do they trade on facebook because they just want a tank that looks nice in their house, and they travel into stores to get the information and ideas they're after.

Another big let down for many IMO is SEQ is a rapidly growing region and some of the shops that have been around for 15-20 years or even longer, believe that because they have been there so long everyone knows thy are there. Retail is changing in auch a way that they are creating little shopping hubs every 10-15 km's with plenty of major retailers. Chain stores will win this game if you don't advertise. Spending a small amount of money on the right advertising can go a long way with driving foot traffic through the doors.

this is my opinion only and as some of you know we started a small lfs 15 months ago, it's not easy but we are starting to see some results now, and none bigger then from advertising. A lot of chain stores like the majors survive mostly on foot traffic in each store, their prices are not cheap by any means, an lfs can compete hands down with this if they advertise enough for people to realise they're there, after the rough dealings from a chain store the customer receives they will be over the moon for the support and information you provide.

Edited by Obeice

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I have been clear. A good debate is needed on this topic. I respect members like none who do not agree but do not attack. It is not that hard.....

Don't attack?!?! I can't believe the topic was about the death of the lfs, as we know it. Then a dry goods wholesaler comes in & gives his view point. Like he is one?!?! That was so gold. I shared this post with others in the hobby, they had a great laugh. One even stated "Glad I sold up when I did"

Cause anyone who has worked, managed or owned an aquarium store in the last 10-20yrs. Would of seen some of the comments as a slap in the face.

I make no apologies Gingerbeer. I was being polite.

Frenchy :)

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I think that retail has changed dramatically in the last decade. It's an industry that has seen many shop owners close up shop (in all markets) due to a number of reasons. Rising rent and electricity costs would be contributing challenges that many retailers would be struggling with.

I'm sad that there's not as many lfs around as there used to be, as spending time driving around to them is part of my enjoyment in this hobby. As is seeing a breeders setup in their home/ backyard/ shed when I'm lucky enough to experience that.

I'm hoping that given time, more independent lfs will emerge as more people get interested and passionate about this hobby.

Edited by Netto14
Auto correct

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Good points all round by everyone (minus a few, but im here to debate and not agree with everyone)

Lets take Fraction for example, a water conditioner identical to prime.

a 2L bottle of fraction is sold to a LFS (or other approved buyer) at a going rate of $32.48.

Where the local fish stores struggle? when an online supplier sells this for $39.95, the profit margin is small, very small.

This has had a hard push on things, and why would someone pay almost double at a LFS as to an online store? they wouldn't. Its smart to buy cheaper right?

why sell one product per week at a 100% mark up when you could sell 10 at a 50% or less mark up...

This is why a lot struggle. Owning a dry goods store? what are overheads?

Compare the differences between a LFS and a DGS.

LFS has to cope with the massive energy bills, rental bills (erry1 got them), staff, fish food, fish deaths, treating fish for QT purposes and so on and so forth.

dry goods store? energy, rent, staff, and occasionally the cost of employing someone to dust down the shelves.

easy to see why its harder for a lfs to survive in comparison now isnt it?

Its a difficult number to pull, on one hand a LFS could turn around and not stock dry goods and give in to the online "Giants", or they can continue to struggle just so they can continue to be a one stop shop for anything you might possibly need for your aquarium.

At the end of the day, i dont support dry goods stores what so ever and i'll never step foot in one. like my opinion or not, im not saying its right, but that is what is doing the damage here. The situation would not be so dire for a LFS if selling fish online became a new way for every man and his dog (wife) to make a quick buk. small people selling dry goods on gumtree? give me a break. There are a couple of toss pots getting around selling dry goods and plants on gumtree (and i think here) which have advertised on gumtree 'SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL HOBBYIST, NOT THE LFS', and to that bloke, you're a bit of a ******.

if you have a breeding set up in your home, multiple grow out tanks, tanks priced up for 'customer' viewing, yes you. you are damaging the hobby.

dont get me wrong, there are those keeping the quality bloodlines going but earning the title "king of gumtree fish" isnt something i'd like to be proud of.

As someone who operates a LFS with another forum member on here, i see what its like day in and day out.

its easy to see now why we are not wanting to support hobbyists anymore. Giving 20% discounts to QLDAF members, and regular customers is now something that we will not do anymore. Ordering in rarer species that only to hobbyist will see the beauty in, will not happen anymore.

did someone mention checkerboard cichlids? i had some sitting in a tank for 6 months before they sold, and i bought them myself.

is it any wonder why LFS are shutting down? they constantly try to support the hobbyist, keep what the hobbyist wants, do things the hobbyist way and where does that get a shop?

betrayed by the people they set out to please.

its difficult, as a hobbyist is saddening too. i wish things didnt have to be this way, unfortunatly thats the way the cookie crumbles.

so if you come to me and ask me "got anything cool and exciting in" one day that might be a stone cold 'no'.

although i will say one things, its good to see some change in a couple of LFS on the goldy.

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Your example is plain wrong with the figures you quote with fraction.

If you want to go toe to toe on expenses i am happy to step up to the mark.

Don't mislead people and don't take the members on here as fools.

Edited by The Tech Den

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Your example is plain wrong with the figures you quote with fraction.

If you want to go toe to toe on expenses i am happy to step up to the mark.

Don't mislead people and don't take the members on here as fools.

If you want to start getting antsy, take it to private messages. Not on here mr professional.

I'd like to see how i am taking members as fools and misleading people.

Edited by Betta-Cray_z

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In my town some shops have Appalling customer service - i am not talking pet or fish shops but general retail. Walking into them it feels like they look down on their customers and lack any empathy for what they want in a shopping experience.

Reading this post, one wonders if some LFS have a similar level of...contempt?..for their customers.

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I think that retail has changed dramatically in the last decade. It's an industry that has seen many shop owners close up shop (in all markets) due to a number of reasons. Rising rent and electricity costs would be contributing challenges that many retailers would be struggling with.

I'm sad that there's not as many lfs around as there used to be, as spending time driving around to them is part of my enjoyment in this hobby. As is seeing a breeders setup in their home/ backyard/ shed when I'm lucky enough to experience that.

I'm hoping that given time, more independent lfs will emerge as more people get interested and passionate about this hobby.

Agree

Add to that chain stores, wholesalers etc...

I worked in Oxenford for years. The new Bunnings opened up. Nearly everything on Old Pacific Highway went under. Then the Coomera Pet Store got bought out too....

It is hard for any small business retail to survive. If people have a "better" option elsewhere. Cheaper, more of etc

Sure I said earlier. All the good little Nurseries on the GC are gone.

Frenchy :)

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Your example is plain wrong with the figures you quote with fraction.

If you want to go toe to toe on expenses i am happy to step up to the mark.

Don't mislead people and don't take the members on here as fools.

So, all you got from that post. Was the argue the point of the price of a product stated? Take the pricing detail out of it. Do you think the rest of the article is about right?

I really don't mind re dry goods stores v LFS... Cause the damage is already done. Add fish breeders under cutting & chain stores... The remaining ones, just have to find a niche that works. Hopefully.

Frenchy :)

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[MENTION=7963]Betta[/MENTION]-crazy_z re lfs stocking

Bernies has Neolamprologus similis for $10 each as an example. Can't move them.

But, even talking to fish breeders. Changes there too. Stocking standard "best sellers"

All the prodictions from 10years+ are coming true... sadly

Frenchy :)

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If you want to start getting antsy, take it to private messages. Not on here mr professional.

I'd like to see how i am taking members as fools and misleading people.

Sorry, you do not get to make statements - have cracks at people then when someone decides enough is enough you want to take it to ground.

You pulled it out in the public forum so I am quite happy to talk here.

You and I both know that is not the only price you can buy Fraction and I am not about to show trade prices as that is disrespectful to the supplier.

Scott you want to say

"Compare the differences between a LFS and a DGS.

LFS has to cope with the massive energy bills, rental bills (erry1 got them), staff, fish food, fish deaths, treating fish for QT purposes and so on and so forth.

dry goods store? energy, rent, staff, and occasionally the cost of employing someone to dust down the shelves.

easy to see why its harder for a lfs to survive in comparison now isnt it?"

My expenses for last month is over 28k

Do educate me on the cheap way of doing business that DGS have.

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So, all you got from that post. Was the argue the point of the price of a product stated? Take the pricing detail out of it. Do you think the rest of the article is about right?

I really don't mind re dry goods stores v LFS... Cause the damage is already done. Add fish breeders under cutting & chain stores... The remaining ones, just have to find a niche that works. Hopefully.

Frenchy :)

No, there is a lot more involved but it would help to keep things factual. Mate we can not turn back time - yep times were great for LFS in the past.

Customers are telling people what they want - when you do not listen to them - they do not follow.

This is a very interesting point of view from overseas.

I hope I am aloud to put this link up.

https://reefbuilders.com/2016/05/07/the-demise-and-decline-of-the-local-fish-store-and-some-possible-ideas-on-how-they-can-stay-alive/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

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We have all the same expenses. You think I scrug algae for free :)

A 2L fraction is an experienced fish keeper purchase. If you dont think they are going to shop around.... thats foolish.

AOA doesnt compete against woolies with milk.

Without the bigger breeders the hobby is doomed. They are not the problem. If you dont want to keep them in the game, that is IMHO a tactical mistake.

But your choice to make.

Blaming all your woes on us is a cop out though. We are chill bro. Every day we send customers to lfs. I happily step into ANY lfs. I do it for fun too. Never know what you will find. Hopefully checkerboards..... but I am happy to settle for some new balloon mollies personally :)

Oh and max respec' to techies efforts. He has created and built something rather impressive. Theres lessons to be learnt by other lfs as far as becoming part of the hobby.

If a lfs is just a place to extract cash from n00bs..... then shops that extract cash from the experienced hobbyists are not even competing. Find your market and then find your place in it.

Its a big industry. Room for everyone g.

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Sorry, you do not get to make statements - have cracks at people then when someone decides enough is enough you want to take it to ground.

You pulled it out in the public forum so I am quite happy to talk here.

You and I both know that is not the only price you can buy Fraction and I am not about to show trade prices as that is disrespectful to the supplier.

Scott you want to say

"Compare the differences between a LFS and a DGS.

LFS has to cope with the massive energy bills, rental bills (erry1 got them), staff, fish food, fish deaths, treating fish for QT purposes and so on and so forth.

dry goods store? energy, rent, staff, and occasionally the cost of employing someone to dust down the shelves.

easy to see why its harder for a lfs to survive in comparison now isnt it?"

My expenses for last month is over 28k

Do educate me on the cheap way of doing business that DGS have.

28k... anyone want to help me find the post from 10yrs ago, re the running costs of a lfs. I don't have it on me anymore.

Frenchy :)

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We have all the same expenses. You think I scrug algae for free :)

A 2L fraction is an experienced fish keeper purchase. If you dont think they are going to shop around.... thats foolish.

AOA doesnt compete against woolies with milk.

Without the bigger breeders the hobby is doomed. They are not the problem. If you dont want to keep them in the game, that is IMHO a tactical mistake.

But your choice to make.

Blaming all your woes on us is a cop out though. We are chill bro. Every day we send customers to lfs. I happily step into ANY lfs. I do it for fun too. Never know what you will find. Hopefully checkerboards..... but I am happy to settle for some new balloon mollies personally :)

Oh and max respec' to techies efforts. He has created and built something rather impressive. Theres lessons to be learnt by other lfs as far as becoming part of the hobby.

If a lfs is just a place to extract cash from n00bs..... then shops that extract cash from the experienced hobbyists are not even competing. Find your market and then find your place in it.

Its a big industry. Room for everyone g.

Not blaming all the woes... Stated a number of factors.

Are you posting "bigger breeders" all the time to keep everyone here happy? You should be in politics lol

Breeders are already having to change their game too. Thanks to the likes of Petbarn buying out everyone. Had a very interesting chat to one for a couple of hours, the other weekend. He has had to change.

We are already seeing the down side. Finding some of the species, common 10yrs ago. Is a mission. Even when hitting up contacts.

Big industry yes. Room for everyone? That isn't true anymore.

Ps; I did see "same expenses" That doesn't even warrant a reply.

Frenchy :)

Edited by HereFishieFishie

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If people don't buy killies, then lfs won't stock them. If lfs wont stock them, then breeders wont breed them.

If you want to play the noble card, then setup a display with fish you like. Create demand.

LFS have to give back to the breeders IF they want breeders to support them.

The second you offer them a spoon full of store credit for a bucket of fish.... they are going to go to a forum or gumtree where they can get actual money.

Its a 2 way street. If you don't respect the breeders, why should they support your store?

Point of note, for all the species lost, we have more available in the hobby these days than ever before.

Have you seen how many zoa varieties there are now?

We are talking platy level options!

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just a question for the ones who think back yard breeders or what ever you want to call the ones who do breed fish at home are bad for the LFS and the hobby,

if we didn't spend hours every week doing this, for the love of the hobby or the love of the money, then how many LFS would be able to stock africans, americans, catfish, L'S and the list goes on, including any fish that is NOT on the import list,

shops like EFC would have almost nothing to sell, (ray and kev are nice blokes) but 90% of their shop can't be imported,

what about smiths, another great shop, no africans or americans apart from some peacocks and tangs, no americans either,

we would have no bristlenose in any of the LFS, apart from L168 i believe no other L'S can be imported, i might be wrong, but maybe 1 or 2 others could be imported,

so where would our LFS be,

they would have a few natives, some tetras, and a few other small fish on the import list, what about the shrimp keepers, again none are allowed to be imported,

so how about those bagging the breeders out go into their LFS and take note of how many of their fish come from the local breeders, remember the wholesalers have to buy their fish from somewhere, so very few africans or americans would be on their lists,

bag us or love us, i don't really care, but we are as important to the aquarium hobby in australia then the LFS and the DGS ,

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Sorry, you do not get to make statements - have cracks at people then when someone decides enough is enough you want to take it to ground.

You pulled it out in the public forum so I am quite happy to talk here.

You and I both know that is not the only price you can buy Fraction and I am not about to show trade prices as that is disrespectful to the supplier.

Scott you want to say

"Compare the differences between a LFS and a DGS.

LFS has to cope with the massive energy bills, rental bills (erry1 got them), staff, fish food, fish deaths, treating fish for QT purposes and so on and so forth.

dry goods store? energy, rent, staff, and occasionally the cost of employing someone to dust down the shelves.

easy to see why its harder for a lfs to survive in comparison now isnt it?"

My expenses for last month is over 28k

Do educate me on the cheap way of doing business that DGS have.

bless, lets talk about expenses. because you too are running over 170 tanks, my god i forgot... silly me.

by no means am i saying a DGS is cheap to run, all i am saying is that there is evidently, and undoubtedly more cost involved in running a lfs. If you try and deny that, your head is too far up your arse of you need a serious reality check.

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