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The LFS Scene: Is It Fair?

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If people don't buy killies, then lfs won't stock them. If lfs wont stock them, then breeders wont breed them.

If you want to play the noble card, then setup a display with fish you like. Create demand.

LFS have to give back to the breeders IF they want breeders to support them.

The second you offer them a spoon full of store credit for a bucket of fish.... they are going to go to a forum or gumtree where they can get actual money.

Its a 2 way street. If you don't respect the breeders, why should they support your store?

Point of note, for all the species lost, we have more available in the hobby these days than ever before.

Have you seen how many zoa varieties there are now?

We are talking platy level options!

LFS owe breeders?!?! Dude, lfs got pissed at some breeders, when they started selling privately for the same price as they sold to them.

How is the lfs meant to sell these fish. Donny, how many "lfs are expense" or similar posts. Have you read over the years. Then the breeders would come in, wanting discount on dry goods. They missed the "scratch each others back" part.

All I suggested. Is if breeders were smart about the hobby. They would of tried to keep everyone happy.

It got to the stage, where lfs were questioning, pulling their sponsorship out of forums. They realized the hobbyist made up for next to nothing of their turnover.

Frenchy :)

Edited by HereFishieFishie

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If people don't buy killies, then lfs won't stock them. If lfs wont stock them, then breeders wont breed them.

If you want to play the noble card, then setup a display with fish you like. Create demand.

LFS have to give back to the breeders IF they want breeders to support them.

The second you offer them a spoon full of store credit for a bucket of fish.... they are going to go to a forum or gumtree where they can get actual money.

Its a 2 way street. If you don't respect the breeders, why should they support your store?

Point of note, for all the species lost, we have more available in the hobby these days than ever before.

Have you seen how many zoa varieties there are now?

We are talking platy level options!

I'm with you here, we pay cSh and we pay what is asked from the breeder. We ring first ask a price for x number of fish if we are happy we turn up and grab them, we do not barter we do not hassle, whilst there we have a chat and create a relationship with these breeders.

We travel for quality, every Sunday we drive from Ipswich as far as Noosa, Gympie, all the way down to Ballina to get fish, whilst an employee runs our shop. This is just 1 aspect of our business, and it works well. If you want to succeed you have to work hard. Gone are the days of being open for 8 hours then going home and drinking beers, your shop might be open 8 hours but you'll be putting 12-14 hour days in if you want to drive foot traffic.

Please give up debating the reasons and being so self centred on the aquarium industry, it's retail in general. Retail stores that have been open 15-20 years and haven't adapted to the way the economy, public, and technology has changed are now finding it harder to compete.

I spend 3-4 hours a night trying to advertise, work online and learn about marketing our store. I am open to talk with any other retailer, visit their store give them a high 5 and have them visit our store and hell even make suggestions. We should be working together to help each other succeed!

Some are having a dig at John feom tech den, but when i messaged him asking advice for online marketing etc he was happy to reply and give me some advice 😃

Edited by Obeice

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I guess at the end of the day it comes down to definition. To me a local "Aquarium Fish Shop" as I called them from the time I was a kid - was a shop I could go into and spend hours looking at (and buying) fish - a shop that had heaps of tanks - more tanks of fish than products. Argonault Aquarium was the epitome for me back then.

Age Of Aquariums to me is an Aquarium Supplies Business. Under the new owners - a very good one at that. Distinct from the above as their primary trade is aquarium products with few to nil live fish. That's not to say anything unkind towards the shop - that's what it is and as the staff there know they've siphoned my back pocket like a Casino (fortunately not a gambler) over the years. Staff there are great - they do provide ongoing advice just like an Aquarium Fish Shop - however they do not sell fish.

I think this is the distinction Frenchy was trying to make. When AOA was established the existing "Pet Shops" (which I characterize by large shops that do have an aquarium section but where that is only a small part of the shop) went on the war path. There were threats made to boycott wholesalers - the whole thing got very ugly. It was stated that AOA would be the end of the "LFS". These days those exact shops that led the chorus against online trade are now running their own websites and doing exactly what they said would destroy the industry..

It would be interesting if one or two of these large 'Pet Shops' would care to comment on this...

Edited by none

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In answer to the original question, no it's not fair but neither is life.

There was always competition the difference is now there is massive chain stores taking over.

Every small business in aus in going through the same thing whether it be hardware, petrol, nursery, chemist, transport the list goes on. The difference seems to be that lfs owners blame there customers for not shopping with them or breeders and dry goods stores for competing against them rather than accepting that we live in a digital age and all businesses need to adapt or die.

There is only a few shops that advertise on facebook groups and Gumtree which I don't understand, there is millions of potential customers that don't know what shops are around.

Has anyone noticed that the businesses that are still doing well all offer internet shopping and shipping as well as a shop front.

I agree with what Steve said about breeders, without them the fish species available would be massively diminished.

When shops stop buying from breeders they have to sell their fish elsewhere, then the shops get upset because breeders are selling direct to the public.

It's a no win situation until people learn to adapt and change.

Cheers mick

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the issue is, this is a small, very select industry.

we should be able to support other stores, refer customers elsewhere for different products and so on.

How is this possible when DGS do nothing but compete and try to make a **** fight with LFS?

Yeah, i'll happily match most prices from DGS, does this still mean i am ripping off the breeders?

breeders deserve respect, but only certain ones.

As frenchy said, we will not take kindly to someone who sells us fish at one price, then sells the same fish to the public at the same price.

supporting the LFS? bull****, supporting your pocket? bloody oath.

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We support breeders that support us. Trading fish for dry goods is a good example. The ones who come in, Want cash for there fish, Then take that cash and buy all there dry goods from DGS do not get our support.

DGS are saying that LFS need to concentrate on fish. Breeders are saying LFS should concentrate on Drygoods.

Everyone wants to sit there and say that times are changing and everything is being done online. That is partly the point of this thread. If everyone is going online what is the point of having a bricks and mortar LFS.

People say that they enjoy walking through a LFS and checking out all the fish, But this will become a thing of the past if we all "Get with the times".

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Look as a native keeper I rarely purchase from LFS this days sadly. Most of my fish are wild caught by me, or purchased at ANGFA auctions or traded with other rainbows nutters. My purchases at the LFS were restricted to food, plants and dry goods.

However I have recently set up a colourful community tank at request of the mrs and daughter. Am having real fun adding Cardinals and honey gouramis and other small tropicals. Obviously I need to purchase these from the LFS. There are some good deals out there, but the variety of species available has dropped off a lot in the past 12 months which is really sad I think its a combination of the state of the economy (don't kid yourselves folks) and the new import laws which is sad.

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We support breeders that support us. Trading fish for dry goods is a good example. The ones who come in, Want cash for there fish, Then take that cash and buy all there dry goods from DGS do not get our support.

DGS are saying that LFS need to concentrate on fish. Breeders are saying LFS should concentrate on Drygoods.

Everyone wants to sit there and say that times are changing and everything is being done online. That is partly the point of this thread. If everyone is going online what is the point of having a bricks and mortar LFS.

People say that they enjoy walking through a LFS and checking out all the fish, But this will become a thing of the past if we all "Get with the times".

I used to have a great trade with Aquariums Alive, when Brad owned it & Marlene(?!?!)Chris before that. Took my fishies in, got store credit... was great. Sure I had to buy a book or 2 randomly, or extra stock of conditioner as dredit was getting out of hand. We all scratched each others back. Simple.

Will add, been some great comments this morning from others... well in my eyes.

The thing with breeders & fish... Who/what sourced the fish & supplied them, to the now breeders in the 1st place? Remember, a lot of these species aren't on the import list either. It was others that were putting their necks out.

Hands up those that used to love to go to Wetpetz. The goodies Malcolm used to get in. He had his little black book. Amazing memory too. He knew, who was roughly chasing what. He knew who would look after them, breed them & then look after Malcolm back. The good old days...

Frenchy :)

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As a young Mexican girl once said

"Why can't we have both"

I and I'm I'm sure many other people do the same buy dry goods from dry goods sellers and buy fish from an LFS.

Why wouldn't you? I'm lucky enough to have some of the best of both within half an hour of where I live. And I enjoy going to both even when I'm just browsing.

I also buy a bit of gear second hand, because this hobby is not exactly a cheap one.

People say smiths is dear....have you been into petbarn lately?

People that ate doing their shopping at pet barn and the like are only doing so because they probably don't know about all the great LFS and dgs that we have around. Certainly not because of their prices.

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personally i sell to LFS and 2 of our sponsors for way under my normal retail price, and i also offer them cheaper deals if i have heaps of 1 type,

i also don't sell to the public any more, unless i have to, sometimes the shops just don't need what i have, so i have no other choice,

i also buy 95% of my dry goods from these 4 places so i do support those who support me,

i will also check our sponsors first if i want to buy something,

as for where i got my fish from, from breeders who i could trust , from the LFS, QLDAF, facebook, and the kid down the road,

but i do know one LFS i will never support now,

who can guess which one, :rant:

SO PLEASE DON'T LUMP ALL THE LOCAL BREEDERS TOGETHER, WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT,

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LFS owe breeders?!?! Dude, lfs got pissed at some breeders, when they started selling privately for the same price as they sold to them.

How is the lfs meant to sell these fish. Donny, how many "lfs are expense" or similar posts. Have you read over the years. Then the breeders would come in, wanting discount on dry goods. They missed the "scratch each others back" part.

All I suggested. Is if breeders were smart about the hobby. They would of tried to keep everyone happy.

It got to the stage, where lfs were questioning, pulling their sponsorship out of forums. They realized the hobbyist made up for next to nothing of their turnover.

Frenchy :)

If hobbyists are none of your turnover, why do you care?

And if you want a monopoly on a certain fish..... then buy them all!

Don't leave the breeder with any to sell to anyone else.

:)

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I apologise to those who have posted in good faith on this topic. It has became necessary to close this thread. People who are keen for a real conversation feel free to start a new thread.

It has became very apparent to all that this thread was started with the aim to attack dry good stores, and personal attacks have been aimed at individuals that are not acceptable. I wish to make it clear it was not other member (including Justin:rofl:) who caused any other posts to be deleted.

The final attack was placed here and also on Facebook by the member and a co-worker. I have zero tolerance for such personal attacks for any member. One is gone for good, and the other has 3 months off. I will decide in three months if I am happy to have him return. The prospects of the store sponsoring the forum while I am admin are slim to none.

The shame is the OP has been given repeated chances on this forum and continues to attack members. Every time he has came back there has been discussion between the mods, and we choose to support second chances. His ad that he placed to sell a shop system as he claimed that was his only pay, contained swearing to members also.

To the positive, QLDAF sponsors and moderators have discussed support of the hobby as a whole and all store fronts and I have been sitting on an announcement of a position change. I am going to make the announcement on Friday next week. Feel free to speculate in a thread if you think you know.

Again if someone wants to start the above discussion in a sensible way please do so. This thread will be removed in the next week.

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