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What kind of stupid comment is "bet you are fun at parties eh" as if you are trying to make fun of Canadian's for saying "eh", and what the hell do parties have anything to do with this. Being new has nothing to do with anything, I've been apart of many forums and successful aquarium clubs and organizations, and given many speeches for aquarium clubs on topics.

For someone like yourself who is representing a company, talking **** to a customer is pretty low on your part; I'll be sure to stay the **** away from your company and make sure others I associate with do as well.

"Good on ya mate"

You are an anti customer. Go read your previous post eh.

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What kind of stupid comment is "bet you are fun at parties eh" as if you are trying to make fun of Canadian's for saying "eh", and what the hell do parties have anything to do with this. Being new has nothing to do with anything, I've been apart of many forums and successful aquarium clubs and organizations, and given many speeches for aquarium clubs on topics.

For someone like yourself who is representing a company, talking **** to a customer is pretty low on your part; I'll be sure to stay the **** away from your company and make sure others I associate with do as well.

"Good on ya mate"

No no good on you mate :clap2:

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Oh, and Donny is the exception haha,.

The difference is I have been doing this long enough to not care if a forum member has a hissy fit and costs me my job. Most others are not already that broken.

I just dont get the duality.

One second we all hate on lfs.

The next we lament their passing.

I am often asked why I bother posting here, and usually I have lots of good reasons.

Its a good hobby, full of good people and a shared good time is had by all.

But all the negatively lately is really lame.

I dont come on here to read this.

And i dont represent aoa.

When you go after aoa because of me, all the awesome lfs workers on here retreat into lurk mode.

Why would they post when one wrong step is gonna result in drama for them.

The rule change invites other lfs people to join in on qldaf. With luck they post so much that they put me in their shade. It will be awesome.

So.... lets welcome them. Lets encourage them. Lets drop the whole bagging on anyone in the industry and look at individuals. Its silly to discount some ones advice because of where they work. Qldaf has never been a place for snobs.

I dont care if you work at smiths or pet barn. You are in the trenches of this hobby and your input is of great value to hobbyists. Dont be put off by the small minority of bad vibes hey, those of us that are here for the long term have your back.

Edited by Donny@ageofaquariums

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I think the addition to the staff having the shop name has been miss interpruted, what he is saying is the store can apply to have their employee have "donny@ageofaquariums" for example, as their usename. What eveyone is missing is that obviously 2 things will occur

1: both parties involved will sit down and discuss this, (employee and employer) bother will weigh up pro's and con's whilst setting up general boundaries making sure the employee is protected from personal attacks and also the business. Having an employee speaking on a forum on behalf of your business is risky business.

2: the employee will first agree on taking on the username change, it just doesn't come with the job title. This is extra curricular activites being under taken basicly free of charge.

Nothing is free. This will be construed as a "principal/agent relationship". The employee should be compensated for their time. Maybe paying for their phone data or sponsoring their home internet. Normally staff would want quality time - 9-5job mon to fri, and go home and have a break. It is different if employees do this whilst at work - thats treated as part of their job as facilities will be provided at work.

You may end up with a labour dispute if suddenly the employee thinks he is short changed. Worst a claim for psychological damage in work if employee cant handle stress and pressure of the added responsibilities. More trouble than benefit i would say. I would think this would have been considered by the proponent of this idea right?

Edited by litigator666

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I get a lot of work related pms. Buuuut this is not me working. This is me after more than a few vodka shots. Its 11pm on saturday night. This isnt me working. I am not getting paid. And I am cool with that.

Sometimes I post on here in work hours using the aoa username. Then I am sober and take due care not to tread on toes.

The bit people are missing imho is that if we know who we are.... we will be a lot more polite to each other. Theres very very few people in the industry that dislike each other. Yea they get grumpy about the little things but end of day we generally all get along great.

Yea theres the risk of making a fool of yourself..... but the potential pluses out weigh that. I want to see efc argue with red dragon about what the best jack food is.... and i cant be alone there.

Way it reads to me, lfs owners have to put their hands up and be named. Employees can apply to be associated if they want.

Edited by Donny@ageofaquariums

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Nothing is free. This will be construed as a "principal/agent relationship". The employee should be compensated for their time. Maybe paying for their phone data or sponsoring their home internet. Normally staff would want quality time - 9-5job mon to fri, and go home and have a break. It is different if employees do this whilst at work - thats treated as part of their job as facilities will be provided at work.

You may end up with a labour dispute if suddenly the employee thinks he is short changed. Worst a claim for psychological damage in work if employee cant handle stress and pressure of the added responsibilities. More trouble than benefit i would say. I would think this would have been considered by the proponent of this idea right?

You certainly missed the rest of my comment didn't you? I clearly said aggreed upon by both parties. Let's be serious here for a split second, donny is like 1% of people, not many people actually enjoy going to work and the. Going home after spending all day talking fish and spending all night talking fish promoting someone elses business.

Legally you could not place it in an employees contract of work without providing some sort of compensation. Actually i'm almost sure you couldn't place it in a retail employees contract unless you employeed them under the skill set of "marketer" then that would mean paying more.

Why are you all jumping up and down like suddenly every enployee is going to be forced to rock around with the shop they work for's name attached to them and have to talk them up? Imagine if i employed you for instance, first i'd need to do background research and make sur eyou actually have a good rep before i could consider handing you the title, then i'd have to hope and pray that you didn't get a big head and run your mouth and ruin the credibility of the store. Not to mention i'd pay extra for that which is added costs, When i could jump on have some kick a$$ conversations with like minded people on here and promote my self free of charge.

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Just to throw another curve-ball into the argument – if the "consumer protection" argument is a serious one, why differentiate between backyard breeders and backyard dry goods sellers?

Customers buying live fish from registered businesses are offered consumer protection. If the fish you are sold turns out to be a hybrid you have a right of refund because the goods weren’t “as described”. If the juiced fish turns grey in a few weeks the business could theoretically be done for deceptive conduct. The registered business has a legal “duty of care” that the hobbyist doesn’t have. You don’t get those protections buying from a backyard breeder.

So if the argument holds for dry-goods, surely you would have to make similar arguments for backyard breeders? But I’m guessing that suggestion would go down like a lead balloon . . . .

aren't you a back yard breeder ?

i also beg to disagree, i am yet to know a breeder who will white crain his fish to sell them, or juice them up,

remember most breeders sell from their house, buyers know where they live, why the hell are we going to try and rip somebody off that knows where we live, get real,

the only ones juicing up the fish might be the wholesalers or importers, but most likely they were juiced up before they were imported,

also the real breeders would never sell a deformed or hybrid fish on purpose as for the reason above,

you always have to try and bag out the ones in qld,

wasn't it you warning your facebook members not to buy fish from qld ?

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aren't you a back yard breeder ?

i also beg to disagree, i am yet to know a breeder who will white crain his fish to sell them, or juice them up,

remember most breeders sell from their house, buyers know where they live, why the hell are we going to try and rip somebody off that knows where we live, get real,

the only ones juicing up the fish might be the wholesalers or importers, but most likely they were juiced up before they were imported,

also the real breeders would never sell a deformed or hybrid fish on purpose as for the reason above,

you always have to try and bag out the ones in qld,

wasn't it you warning your facebook members not to buy fish from qld ?

The point I was making is you can’t use an argument to oppose backyard dry good sales, when that exact same argument can be used against backyard fish sales, which is supported. There are plenty of back yard breeders producing hybrid and juiced fish . . . . and I’m guessing some people may be able to cite examples of honest backyard dry good sellers who are selling good, reliable products.

Don’t get me wrong – I personally support any moves which help clean up some of the dodgy practices affecting the hobby, including the grey imports and unsafe products. I am personally happy to see any moves which help to support the struggling LFS. I was simply pointing out a problem with the arguments being used.

And I think you may want to check your facts carefully before making personal attacks against individuals.

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The point I was making is you can’t use an argument to oppose backyard dry good sales, when that exact same argument can be used against backyard fish sales, which is supported. There are plenty of back yard breeders producing hybrid and juiced fish . . . . and I’m guessing some people may be able to cite examples of honest backyard dry good sellers who are selling good, reliable products.

Don’t get me wrong – I personally support any moves which help clean up some of the dodgy practices affecting the hobby, including the grey imports and unsafe products. I am personally happy to see any moves which help to support the struggling LFS. I was simply pointing out a problem with the arguments being used.

And I think you may want to check your facts carefully before making personal attacks against individuals.

yes you can,

breeders spend the time and money to breed fish, most times spending heaps more money then the normal person keeping a display tank, they also make it possible for the shops to stock fish that can't be imported, they give shops more species to sell,

where would you get 99% of the malawi africans from today? you can't import them, they don't just show up at wholesalers, they have to be bred,

way different to somebody buying dry goods from china and re-selling on facebook

don't bundle breeders with back yard dry good sellers,

as for checking my facts, no need, i asked you a question ? which you didn't answer,

the other stuff i saw with my own eyes posted by you, so no facts need checking, are you saying you never posted on your group to be careful when buying from qld as we sell bad quality or hybrid fish, well not just fish, but africans

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I like this thread already, but too much donny.

Can we get some input from any of the members this would effect?

I mean..... Good? Bad?

I think it has potential to give forum a boost of life.

It has massive potential to give the forum

New life, attract more traffic from word of mouth conversations. Imagine lfs that have been extremely quiet suddenly openly talking about the forum and promoting it and driving more traffic. You can bet 70/80% of the aquarium traffic hasn't heard of the forum. This extra volume will potentially clean up fish keeping practices and poor advice given through social media outlets and "the grape vine" and actually give some knowledge back into the hobby and actually helping people learn exactly what they're doing wrong.

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yes you can,

breeders spend the time and money to breed fish, most times spending heaps more money then the normal person keeping a display tank, they also make it possible for the shops to stock fish that can't be imported, they give shops more species to sell,

where would you get 99% of the malawi africans from today? you can't import them, they don't just show up at wholesalers, they have to be bred,

way different to somebody buying dry goods from china and re-selling on facebook

don't bundle breeders with back yard dry good sellers,

as for checking my facts, no need, i asked you a question ? which you didn't answer,

the other stuff i saw with my own eyes posted by you, so no facts need checking, are you saying you never posted on your group to be careful when buying from qld as we sell bad quality or hybrid fish, well not just fish, but africans

In the original post on this thread, the first reason stated for the stance was that people buying from backyard dry goods traders aren’t covered by consumer protection laws. I posted to point out that EQUALLY, people buying privately from backyard live fish sellers also aren’t covered by consumer protection laws.

Its life – there are good breeders and bad breeders, just as there are good LFS and on-line retailers and wholesalers, and doctors and lawyers and mechanics, as well as bad. I’m not generalising. I’m certainly not suggesting that all backyard breeders are charlatans. I’m pointing out that if you are serious about suggesting that there is a need to stop backyard dry good sellers ON THE GROUNDS OF LACK OF CONSUMER PROTECTION, then exactly that same argument COULD be made against private sales by backyard breeders.

By all means support backyard breeders and private sales – just be aware that consumer protections don’t apply to those transactions.

And no – I have never advised “to be careful when buying from qld as we sell bad quality or hybrid fish”. I have advised hobbyists about the pitfalls of buying fish sight unseen from anywhere, and pointed out that hybrids are problematic not only in SA, but around the country.

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