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Slipshodman

Does PH really matter ........discussion

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So i was thinking...and yes it hurt 

Does PH really matter ….So to explain a little ,

 

In theory I have a fry tank, that needs to be super clean

So 20% water change every day ….

No substrate to help in being clean

Just a sponge filter for good bio filtration

 

How would I adjust PH

Why would I adjust PH

Unless I adjusted the new water prior to the water change ..

 

So my water from the tap is 7.5 ph

 

Assuming I would not be doing anything to the water before the water change except for temp matching

 

So does PH really matter ?

 

What does a big wholesaler do with their tanks…I assume they don’t PH match for all different breeds of fish they are holding

Does your LFS PH match for different breeds…

So if the wholesaler & LFS don’t match PH for different breeds … the fish we get would all be at an average PH ?

 

So if before we get the fish they are at an average PH does it really matter for us to get the PH in their tanks to what it would be in the wild… They may never have been kept in thse conditions in their life unless they were wild caught ….

 

Just thinking out loud ….. Happy for any comment from people wiser than me …

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ph doesn't really matter as much as stability. Constantly trying to change your ph through chemicals can result in swings, so natural, long term methods are far better.

Unless we are talking wildcaught fish, or very extreme Ph values, I think our domestically bred fish do much better without fluctuation. 

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Is pH important? Yes. Buffering capacity of water matters more than the specific tested pH level itself. Meaning that the ability of water to maintain pH is important hence hardness levels come into play. Having a pH of 7.6 that is stable is far better than having an initial 7.8 with little buffering capacity. Where many come unstuck is by testing the tap water for pH only at water change - if that water then has next to no buffering capacity the pH can rapidly fall.  How important depends on species but pH shock can and does kill fish. Do shops and wholesalers monitor pH? Many do yes. Do they adjust settings for every tank? No. Generally (meaning there are exceptions - Discus, Tangs etc) they will maintain their tanks at an 'average'  parameter setting. Ask your supplier / shop what pH they maintain. Some sources of tap water may be satisfactory straight from the tap (excluding chlorine neutraliser) - others aren't.

The above advice is intended for Malawi Cichlids and the like.

If this is in reference to your Frontosa then I would advise investigating your hardness levels. I would also enquire as to the parameters of your fish supplier.  7.5 with little buffering capacity would need to be addressed. 7.5 is low for Tanganyikans. Many Frontosa breeders maintain 8.0+. 8.0 to 7.5 is a very big difference. Old school plastic corner filter loaded with shellgrit is one easy way to help buffer. If Frontosa were wild caught or recent gen you'd really want to be doing everything to replicate wild conditions.

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I have heard this rumor before. That the stability of ph is more important than the ph itself. Some fish do need ph levels to be close to what they need but not always exactly what the text books read.

This is why locally bred fish always do or adjust to your fish tanks conditions better than imported or wild caught fish.

I wouldn't use it as a blanket rule because there are fish that wont survive, or survive for very long anyways unless their water conditions are met or at least closely resembled.

 

 

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I suspect that the circumstances matter - as mentioned above. 

for me, ph is not ph. it is the environment that you need to deal with, which in turn includes PH.

specific to your circumstance - as i read it: fish tank, water, sponge filter.  nothing else in it.  water change daily - that is the environment you are talking about. no real chance for ph to swing in any direction for any reason, that i can see (no co2, no lights, no plants, no substrate, no additions of any kind).  imho - if the fish are tolerant of the ph out of the tap - leave it alone.  keep that environment simple.  so here - ph does not matter.

of course, as mentioned in other posts above, things can change (environments change) in a tank where there are lots of other things in the tank. so as the environment changes, you need to rethink pH.

environment can include  species that do have specific needs.  this applies - so depending on how fragile the fry species to pH, address as advised above.

the issue about the buffer is i think an important one, personally i do like to address the buffer in my tanks.  I agree that finding a way to buffer the tank and maintain that buffer is a key in complex/tech environments: -  those tanks that have plants, and driftwood and substrates, and livestock and lighting and other gizmoraters. 

LFS generally have one large tank system, all tanks feed into and return from a single system.  so all parameters tend to be the same, system wide.  As mentioned there are execptions to the rule for specific need species.  IME most LFS dont mess with the ph on the main system.  local tap water ph is what they go with - exceptions excluded.

not sure if this makes it easier or more complicated regarding your original post.  but ultimately , as per a discussion request, more information to add to the mix.  this is how i look at things.

 

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I agree with everything that has been said so far, but just wanted to add this.

Depending on the fish you keep, if the Ph is not correct, the fry can grow up with bent spines and other deformities.

Or you might get all males and no females or visa versa all because of the variation in Ph.

In some cases the adults tolerate a wrong Ph but it will just kill fry.

If you want to breed successfully then you MUST check Ph and Hardness regularly to make sure it matchs the species kept.

But for display tanks you can usually get away with an average Ph as long as it is maintained and does not vary too much too quickly.

Edited by xysti53

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My view is that we can be influenced by what is easy to measure rather than what is important.  pH is easy to measure.  I am more interested in hardness and except for some strange cases, you get the hardness right and your pH magically becomes right.  hardness can be confused due to water softeners, so the next step in understanding is TDS especially if you are into soft water fish. 

Hard water is all about what salts are actually present.  A salt/buffer mix that matches water chemistry is better that one that matches pH and hardness in my view. 

For people who keep Malawi cichlids, American big cichlids will have one view that differs from those who keep Tanganyika's and soft water fish. 

 

 

 

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PH directly affects whether you have ammonium or more so ammonia, that's pretty important.

Vinegar will make it fall and lime will make it rise and mag will help hold it there.

Your tap water has to be the correct PH so that the orthophosphate added to it does not precipitate out, so 7.5 sounds cool, for freshies.

With marines it is pretty important, once too low the PH we test for that is the electromotive forces between the resin/base and the acid, this acts the same as extreme static electricity and salt is an amazing conductor, from that oxygen does not do well for life with a sort of static charge!

No matter how great your elec equip is, in a marine tank, this was way back, I would test my PH tests by placing my fingers in the tank with cuts, works well, low hurts a little, high not so bad, lol, yeh I know weird old school stuff.

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