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MaxVengeance

ATTENTION: Americans need you!!!!!!

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LONG READ, A few minutes your time:

 

So this is something that was already touched on in an old thread by a member called OFRC over two years ago now, I came across it searching the forum and it got me thinking, it’s no secret that the aesthetic quality, purity, and overall vigour of many different species of American cichlids is declining because of poor breeding practice among other things, OFRC Tried to get the conversation started regarding improving large American cichlid genetics, by selectively breeding only the best possible examples one can find of a chosen species and culling all but the best fry to continue forward with breeding. I think what may have derailed the thread a little was the mention of introducing feral blood, in hopes to add some of that wild vigour back into the bloodlines. While it’s a valid point, it would only really be applicable to the South Americans that we know cannot hybridise with each other, (assumed purity) and that uncertainty veers from the whole point of the exercise, with that being said I would like to ask..

(You’ve Come This Far Keep Reading)....

Who is/has been selectively breeding Americans in an attempt to preserve genetics for the future generations to enjoy? With the borders all but closed, the long term future of quality American cichlids is in our hands, Quality fish are still around, and by no means am I trying to slander anyone breeding without purpose or a goal other than reproduction, the rabbit hole goes deep, and many choose the blue pill over the red, and that’s totally fine, some don’t know any better, some don’t care, to each their own, this thread (hopefully) is for the hobbyists that are a little more invested in fish keeping, those that want perfect fish, think long term, will our kids have the pleasure of keeping cichlids like we have? that arnt deformed, hybrid, unhealthy versions  of their once glorious selves? Ellioti’s among others seem to nearly all have spinal defects, So this is more a call to arms, who is out there actively working away on breeding projects for the greater good? And not for the dollar, I know there are many chipping away as we speak, some longer than others have been alive, what are your goals?

for those that may chime in I believe these 5 points should be touched on

Here goes.... I’ll start

Chosen Species:  Salvinis

End goal: To bring back prominent contrasting bright yellow and black, red colouration on the lower half of both males and females 

Reasoning: IMO most salvinis are flushed of their true colour and the red is absent a lot of the time

Method: Waiting to find male I deem to be worthy which will be crossed to my best female, and line bred from there, A lot of culls, crossing different filial generations back to each other, observing the results and moving forward

Progress: Not off the ground yet, just beginning, time will tell

look forward to hearing from fellow members that are on a similar path (please exist), include any pictures, I hope that we can make this thread a common ground for members to share their breeding experiences and progression towards higher quality, non adulterised American cichlid bloodlines. Not just a species specific thread.

“Ask not what your cichlids can do for you, but what you can do for your cichlids”

Max,

 

 

 

 

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my 2 cents on line breeding is that by breeding for maximum colour, you might unwittingly line breed defects/weakness' that can't be measured.

i find it annoying when people see colourful fish and make comments such as "man these are the best quality _______ I've seen in ages."

a good example is when you're in search of broodstock for angelfish, you go out and choose the fish showing the most promise, and 100% of the time they grow up to have quite poor body shape when compared to wild fish, and whats the go with the weird nauchal humps they get these days? if you want 'quality' fish you actually have to start with wilds.

good luck though, i always dreamt of doing the same with fire mouths but couldn't dedicate the time and litres to a project like that.

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Hit the nail on the head @joller colour isn’t necessarily quality by any means, and as far as measuring vigor etc without growing out the progeny for years, and even going as far as putting them through a range of different conditions to see if any weaknesses/ defects show up, how does one truely know the “quality” of said progency, firemouths are definitely one of the species that are seldom as good as wild caught examples seen in old school books, wild caught Americans would be the dream, but alas these days but a dream it is, the only hope is to start with the best fish we can find as do our best to make improvements, It’s definitely an ambitious goal but hey someone has to try, cheers for stopping in

Max,

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I think most enthusiasts would have had this thought at some stage. For me, the target fish was going to be Green Terrors. When you see photos of wild caught Andinoacara species on American sites it really makes you realise that our 'sub-line' has moved far from the original. But of course, timing etc didn't let that play out. Would be fun, but arduous to work on a species like that for not much gain but personal satisfaction, all to have it potentially not work or be undone by the other stock that may be out there. Would be cool to see good Salvinis. I remember Ozmo a member on here had REALLY nice Sals a few months or so back. Not sure if they've got them still, may be worth asking.

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@Eric A sorry to leave you hanging mate, this is the unfortunate truth for so many American species, I also have soft spot for green terrors, not many  that you can compare to pictures online from wild caughts/ fish over seas that are as nice, it’s true it is a lot of work, and it could easily be undone by other stock, but here lies part of the problem, it’s the people that purely do this for the personal gain and not the personal satisfaction that are helping quality decline, this is my hobby not my job, take super green Texas for example, 5 maybe more years ago the quality getting around were far nicer, then every man and his dog started breeding them when they had hype, likely with zero selection or culling, the bad getting paired to the bad, generation after generation and honestly now I think half the ones getting around are garbage

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