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Foskett96

WTB Parachromis Multifasciatus (formally P. Friedrichsthalii)

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Looking for Parachromis Multifasciatus formally Parachromis Friedrichshalii.

Only accepting high quality fish. If the fish are fry, pictures of parents would be amazing! Price is negotiable, and I am willing to pay good money for high quality fish!

I am located within Sydney so will require shipping

If you have some available please do not hesitate to send me a message on here!

Picture does not belong to me and is for reference only.
 

parachromis.jpeg

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I got some really nice juvies off members @marcusnsherell back in 2015/16 or so. Don't know if they still breed/frequent the forum though. There were a few on here that got some from them so maybe still some floating around from them.

@fishjunky doesnt seem to be able to tag anymore. He was known for quality Americans. Anyone know what happened to him? 

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5 hours ago, hamishh34 said:

I got some really nice juvies off members @marcusnsherell back in 2015/16 or so. Don't know if they still breed/frequent the forum though. There were a few on here that got some from them so maybe still some floating around from them.

@fishjunky doesnt seem to be able to tag anymore. He was known for quality Americans. Anyone know what happened to him? 

Thank you very much for the response. Do you still have the juveniles you picked up? 
Unfortunately seems he hasn’t been active on here for quite a while 

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13 minutes ago, Foskett96 said:

Thank you very much for the response. Do you still have the juveniles you picked up? 
Unfortunately seems he hasn’t been active on here for quite a while 

No, unfortunately. With the misso in charge of fish duties while I was away my festae smashed through the divider and left no survivors. Was disappointed as I had a very nice male and female pair off. 

Have always kept an ear to the ground though waiting for some quality ones to pop back up. The majority switch from the forum to FB groups has hurt staying in contact with people who used to breed the quality stuff sadly. 

How did you go on your trimac search? The last time I saw genuine looking ones was at annerley aquarium in 2013 or so. Didnt think they were hard to come by as I was new to the hobby and still kick myself for not grabbing them. Will keep an eye out for the multifaciatus for you.  

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3 hours ago, hamishh34 said:

No, unfortunately. With the misso in charge of fish duties while I was away my festae smashed through the divider and left no survivors. Was disappointed as I had a very nice male and female pair off. 

Have always kept an ear to the ground though waiting for some quality ones to pop back up. The majority switch from the forum to FB groups has hurt staying in contact with people who used to breed the quality stuff sadly. 

How did you go on your trimac search? The last time I saw genuine looking ones was at annerley aquarium in 2013 or so. Didnt think they were hard to come by as I was new to the hobby and still kick myself for not grabbing them. Will keep an eye out for the multifaciatus for you.  

I am sorry to hear that.
About a year ago I had a group that I was growing out but they begun turning xanthic so I was pretty bummed, but I figured that I would give it one more shot and see how my luck ends up going. this has been a species that is at the top of my bucket list to spawn. Many years ago I had a large female that never turned xanthic. 
 

That really sucks, although I do find that on he forums you generally find the hidden gems. Makes it hard though for those who aren’t on Facebook. 
 

Trimac search didn’t go amazingly. Ended up finding a solo male but the seller back out last minute. There is a pair in Sydney but they are yet to spawn :( really sucks living in Australia sometimes as the species at the top of my bucket list are either super super rare or not in the country. 
 

I would appreciate if you could keep a look out for some high quality P. Multifasciatus for me. I have some coming from one source within NSW but if you’d be able to get a hold of the breeder you originally got yours from or another breeder with high quality stock I would be interested in getting some to increase my chances of a high quality pair. 

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I got some from Smith's aquarium about a week back. Come from Melbourne apparently. Not sure of they have any still, worth a call.

There's very limited bloodlines of Freddy's (now multi) in Australia, the ones we had back in the day were actually the old loiselli, not sure of the current crop as I think some were brought into the country about 5 years ago.

They all carry the xanthic gene (ones in Aus) I had a pair that were normal but still threw xanthic babies. Even the normals have the usual blindness and swim bladder issues.

The ones I got from Smith's are now about 10cm and seem to be pretty strong fish with good shape though

 

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1 hour ago, kavi75 said:

I got some from Smith's aquarium about a week back. Come from Melbourne apparently. Not sure of they have any still, worth a call.

There's very limited bloodlines of Freddy's (now multi) in Australia, the ones we had back in the day were actually the old loiselli, not sure of the current crop as I think some were brought into the country about 5 years ago.

They all carry the xanthic gene (ones in Aus) I had a pair that were normal but still threw xanthic babies. Even the normals have the usual blindness and swim bladder issues.

The ones I got from Smith's are now about 10cm and seem to be pretty strong fish with good shape though

 

Thank you for the response. 
 

Did you have any photos of the P. Multifasciatus you picked up from smiths, as well as the pair you have/ used to have? I have just emailed them so I hope to hear back and see what they say. 
 

I hope to at least get a pair that don’t turn xanthic and I will be happy. I know this is a fair long shot. I have 12 coming on Monday from within Sydney so I possibly may pick up a few more from smiths. I don’t believe they shop though?

I know I’m Pretty much taking a stab in the dark but this is a species I’ve always wanted to keep and spawn. The group from Sydney I have coming are they same bloodline as the pair that Aquadisiac currently has. You should be able to view the pair on their Instagram/ Facebook. They are gorgeous, display beautiful colours and good body shape. 

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Freddies (now multi) have been in Aus for at least 10 years and I am pretty sure longer than that due to the ones I had observed and importing laws. @MRNOS who I believe no longer frequents the forum had some loiselli (now another name I believe - maybe the new friedrichsthalii?) but he never got his pair to spawn and sold them and they disappeared, much to his and some american keepers disappointment. They were the first and last time I ever saw loiselli here. Should be some photos left on the forum of them. 

There were two lines of multis in Aus at one point. The larger population (not sure of locality or if you can even call them a locality anymore) of the current ones we see that have high chances of carrying xanthic genetics. The second was a smaller group of 'la ceiba yellow head' locality but they didn't stay separate for long and were bred into the other variety and has since vanished. 

As the xanthic gene a recessive trait, not all will be visuals. With xanthics dying/going blind early they dont reproduce for as long as normal ones. So even if you breed two visual normals that are 100% hetrozygous for xanthic, 25% of the offspring on average will be visually normal and will not carry the trait and 50% chance that the offspring will be visually normal and 100% hetrozygous. The only way to produce an entice batch of fry that is 100% xanthic is to breed xanthic to xanthic. 

Therefore it is not impossible to find animals that dont carry the gene or that will not display it. Your best bet to avoid it is to not buy a whole group from one source/batch to avoid potential xanthic animals. Or look for breeders whose fish are a few years old and larger than 25cm.  As 15-20cm seems to be a common size that the animals show the mutation. Not sure if its based on size/growth or age though. 

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On 18/05/2020 at 9:07 AM, hamishh34 said:

Freddies (now multi) have been in Aus for at least 10 years and I am pretty sure longer than that due to the ones I had observed and importing laws. @MRNOS who I believe no longer frequents the forum had some loiselli (now another name I believe - maybe the new friedrichsthalii?) but he never got his pair to spawn and sold them and they disappeared, much to his and some american keepers disappointment. They were the first and last time I ever saw loiselli here. Should be some photos left on the forum of them. 

There were two lines of multis in Aus at one point. The larger population (not sure of locality or if you can even call them a locality anymore) of the current ones we see that have high chances of carrying xanthic genetics. The second was a smaller group of 'la ceiba yellow head' locality but they didn't stay separate for long and were bred into the other variety and has since vanished. 

As the xanthic gene a recessive trait, not all will be visuals. With xanthics dying/going blind early they dont reproduce for as long as normal ones. So even if you breed two visual normals that are 100% hetrozygous for xanthic, 25% of the offspring on average will be visually normal and will not carry the trait and 50% chance that the offspring will be visually normal and 100% hetrozygous. The only way to produce an entice batch of fry that is 100% xanthic is to breed xanthic to xanthic. 

Therefore it is not impossible to find animals that dont carry the gene or that will not display it. Your best bet to avoid it is to not buy a whole group from one source/batch to avoid potential xanthic animals. Or look for breeders whose fish are a few years old and larger than 25cm.  As 15-20cm seems to be a common size that the animals show the mutation. Not sure if its based on size/growth or age though. 

Sorry for taking a while to respond, I am unsure why my response didn't post,

 

I picked up a group of 13 today, The parents of them the male was around 25cm and the female around 18cm. They seem to be doing ok in the tank. I have noticed that some seem to have what I would consider strange ventral fins, in such, when they are retracted they lean towards one side of the body (best way I can describe it). Compared to your normal fish where they sit symmetrical one on each side. This only seems to appear on a few of the smaller growouts in the group, but to say the least I was pretty down when I saw it. Is this common in Australia?

 

I have rescaped a 4ft tank for them to growout in and will post photos of the aquarium and P. Multifasciatus group tomorrow night once the tank has had time to clear up and the aquarium lights are on. I would love a pair of P, Dovii but unfortunately at the moment the largest aquarium I have available to me is a 6x2x2ft :(

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Very interested in this thread and how you are going on your hunt mate (I saw a bunch listed for a store in SA..and they also have some nice little gems turn up from time to time and WA is also another good location to see what's hiding amongst the cool fish over that way)..I managed to breed a whole bunch of these about 8 or so years back  and my girl was xanthic but the little guys all turned out super strong no duds etc but naturally id say a few turned xanthic later in life..not sure if this led to marcusandsherells group as I remember dealing with them back in the day...it's funny because overseas they love the xanthic genetics because it's so recessive and rare and yet here with our limited gene pool (evidence in how much the xanthic gene is almost 'common' in a few blood lines now) it's undesired...really does show how little we have had new blood injected into our fish...I believe this all came about because the original group that led to the xanthic factor was a small group of 6 or 7 fish imported way back and one had the gene..like I said shows how much we lack in the way of diverse genetics with our fish!...they are a beautiful fish and might be something to look out for but I noticed all my fry were golden...just saying this could be a sign of xanthic genetics being present (now that it's almost part of the regular DNA with a bunch of these guys)..I was just thinking with the nice white you get on the underside you might find babies with no xanthic genetics could be differently marked as juveniles...just an idea and from my own experiences...would be good to stabilise a blood line that doesn't have the xanthic factor and then keep it true and seperate to the xanthic ones getting about (as it sounds like you are trying to do so good stuff!)...the name of the store in SA with them is Amazing Amazon or something along those lines..but could be worth looking into further if interested..

 

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7 hours ago, goldenswimmers said:

Very interested in this thread and how you are going on your hunt mate (I saw a bunch listed for a store in SA..and they also have some nice little gems turn up from time to time and WA is also another good location to see what's hiding amongst the cool fish over that way)..I managed to breed a whole bunch of these about 8 or so years back  and my girl was xanthic but the little guys all turned out super strong no duds etc but naturally id say a few turned xanthic later in life..not sure if this led to marcusandsherells group as I remember dealing with them back in the day...it's funny because overseas they love the xanthic genetics because it's so recessive and rare and yet here with our limited gene pool (evidence in how much the xanthic gene is almost 'common' in a few blood lines now) it's undesired...really does show how little we have had new blood injected into our fish...I believe this all came about because the original group that led to the xanthic factor was a small group of 6 or 7 fish imported way back and one had the gene..like I said shows how much we lack in the way of diverse genetics with our fish!...they are a beautiful fish and might be something to look out for but I noticed all my fry were golden...just saying this could be a sign of xanthic genetics being present (now that it's almost part of the regular DNA with a bunch of these guys)..I was just thinking with the nice white you get on the underside you might find babies with no xanthic genetics could be differently marked as juveniles...just an idea and from my own experiences...would be good to stabilise a blood line that doesn't have the xanthic factor and then keep it true and seperate to the xanthic ones getting about (as it sounds like you are trying to do so good stuff!)...the name of the store in SA with them is Amazing Amazon or something along those lines..but could be worth looking into further if interested..

 

Thanks for the informative response. 

Your pair look lovely! Especially the male! 

Yesterday I obtained a group of 13, so far it seems that 2-3 have deformed ventral fins where it looks as if they are pushed to one side of the body, and two their dorsal fins don’t connect to the first dorsal fin ray which is kinda upsetting. Part of me is wondering if this species is too far gone within Australia. Given I may 5 deformed from the group of 13 that would leave me with a group of 8 give or take. 
I am going to email amazing amazon and see if they can send me through some photos now 

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Don't give up mate because you might be able to isolate the genetics and cull "back" to a non xanthic line hence why I mentioned the fry "look" could assist..as mentioned my fry were golden as in all over(!) which looked pretty unusual(wish I could find my other old thread on here where I was selling the juvies to show you examples but should be able to find the pics mate so will add them when I do)...I have seen examples of adults that looked a lot less "gold" than even my adults with other people especially interstate so might be worth considering..they had a lot more white on the underbelly and less of a gold look..looking more light yellow..the blue fin edging was apparent in both...I do think the xanthic genetics has almost reshaped this fish in a way and it's a weird little breeding experiment in its own right.. to breed using a recessive gene as a "common" gene in the gene pool and why the majority of these guys here might now be quite different to the original make up of this fish...as with any animal when you start to breed focusing on the recessive genes you will throw colour morphs and break up what's to be normally expected in your offspring...it may take quite a bit of work though(!) (why I was hoping you might be able see if there is some sign at fry/juvenile stage) as you would have to grow out to adult stage for the xanthic trait to show and then hold those that don't show the trait... eventually hoping to minimise further and further with each generation...sounds like a long process..even your new current stock and if they hold different genetics it may be worth breeding these guys and culling back to the desired true form..you can breed deformities out but how long and how many generations that requires is the mystery :eyebrows:

Weird situation here in Australia and we may find we end up having to do this with a few varieties of fish if the genetics get bad...heavy culling of fry to breed "back" to a good version of the fish...fingers crossed deformed genes don't get too strong with our fish we are allowed and why interstate batches of fish are good to add to the mix I believe..I think the Ellioti is an example along the same lines...some may disagree and say the back deformity with this fish is due to cooler/warmer weather but I disagree and believe it is the initial broodstock introduced to Australia that has caused this issue...If you let the deformity be bred into the fish it shows again...if you aim at fish with the straightest backs it becomes recessive again (still throwing a small few in a generation) and I have found this from breeding experience with temperature not factoring into this at all..we just have limited gene pools with a few of our fish and I believe it's due to the genetic make up of the initial broodstock as opposed to an environmental factor here as well..in most cases strong genetics eventually take over (when the gene pool is diverse or can be added to) but when the initial small group you start with features a deformity or recessive trait it will impact the offspring to a much greater degree and be a lot stronger in the make up of the fish.

It is a pain to be stuck having to rely on good breeding practices as opposed to mother nature because we don't have access to true wild fish to replenish the gene pool but I guess if we want to keep what ever variety in this hobby we have this might be our only option (heavy culling with all fish to keep them true which breeders should really be doing anyways we just have to cull more than standard :faint:)

Sorry for the essay mate :blah: but will also keep an eye out for you if I can come across other sources of these guys as I'd like a nice pair in the future sometime too I think :eyebrows:

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11 hours ago, goldenswimmers said:

Don't give up mate because you might be able to isolate the genetics and cull "back" to a non xanthic line hence why I mentioned the fry "look" could assist..as mentioned my fry were golden as in all over(!) which looked pretty unusual(wish I could find my other old thread on here where I was selling the juvies to show you examples but should be able to find the pics mate so will add them when I do)...I have seen examples of adults that looked a lot less "gold" than even my adults with other people especially interstate so might be worth considering..they had a lot more white on the underbelly and less of a gold look..looking more light yellow..the blue fin edging was apparent in both...I do think the xanthic genetics has almost reshaped this fish in a way and it's a weird little breeding experiment in its own right.. to breed using a recessive gene as a "common" gene in the gene pool and why the majority of these guys here might now be quite different to the original make up of this fish...as with any animal when you start to breed focusing on the recessive genes you will throw colour morphs and break up what's to be normally expected in your offspring...it may take quite a bit of work though(!) (why I was hoping you might be able see if there is some sign at fry/juvenile stage) as you would have to grow out to adult stage for the xanthic trait to show and then hold those that don't show the trait... eventually hoping to minimise further and further with each generation...sounds like a long process..even your new current stock and if they hold different genetics it may be worth breeding these guys and culling back to the desired true form..you can breed deformities out but how long and how many generations that requires is the mystery :eyebrows:

Weird situation here in Australia and we may find we end up having to do this with a few varieties of fish if the genetics get bad...heavy culling of fry to breed "back" to a good version of the fish...fingers crossed deformed genes don't get too strong with our fish we are allowed and why interstate batches of fish are good to add to the mix I believe..I think the Ellioti is an example along the same lines...some may disagree and say the back deformity with this fish is due to cooler/warmer weather but I disagree and believe it is the initial broodstock introduced to Australia that has caused this issue...If you let the deformity be bred into the fish it shows again...if you aim at fish with the straightest backs it becomes recessive again (still throwing a small few in a generation) and I have found this from breeding experience with temperature not factoring into this at all..we just have limited gene pools with a few of our fish and I believe it's due to the genetic make up of the initial broodstock as opposed to an environmental factor here as well..in most cases strong genetics eventually take over (when the gene pool is diverse or can be added to) but when the initial small group you start with features a deformity or recessive trait it will impact the offspring to a much greater degree and be a lot stronger in the make up of the fish.

It is a pain to be stuck having to rely on good breeding practices as opposed to mother nature because we don't have access to true wild fish to replenish the gene pool but I guess if we want to keep what ever variety in this hobby we have this might be our only option (heavy culling with all fish to keep them true which breeders should really be doing anyways we just have to cull more than standard :faint:)

Sorry for the essay mate :blah: but will also keep an eye out for you if I can come across other sources of these guys as I'd like a nice pair in the future sometime too I think :eyebrows:

No need to apologies at all, I appreciate a detailed response :D

I am not giving up. I am currently going to grow the group out and see how they turn out. Due to import laws Australia seems to constantly be in positions of losing pure strains from the hobby. Take the speices in the Vieja (or paraneetroplus idk they change them all the time) so many of them have been cross breed as people don't know what they have or they are intentionally attempting to spawn hybrids.

I have some pretty exciting growouts happening for me at the moment with my wild caught Hypselecara Temporalis pair, wild caught wavrini (although from what I have read getting a female is near impossible),  the Parachromis Multifasciatus and now also a group of 6 Parachromis Dovii which were a birthday present from a close friend. I have read that it will take them quite a while to out grow a 6x2x2 so by the time they have I plan to have a larger tank or I know people with larger tanks to move them on too. P. Dovii has been a bucket list fish for me as long as I can remember.

My last group of P. Multifasciatus turned xanthic at around 12cm which was quite early on. I guess in hindsight I guess that saved me from growing them for many years for it to happen then. I have always tried to find info on what could trigger then to turn later on or earlier in life, but I think no one knows. Here is a video of them in the growout tank. They are in there with some Melanotaenia Duboulayi as dithers. It is fascinating to see the dominate in the group when they are displaying dominance and flash the tradition adult colouration.  I did need to remove the driftwood and divide the tank in half as while the 6 P. Dovii are still small they will growout in here as well. I didn't want to risk just chucking them in there with the P. Multifasciatus and coming home to a massacre ahaha. I am not the greatest photographer so I think that coupled with the setting on the radion light has washed out some of the fish and made them look white. 

 

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On 22/05/2020 at 11:14 PM, Foskett96 said:

No need to apologies at all, I appreciate a detailed response :D

I am not giving up. I am currently going to grow the group out and see how they turn out. Due to import laws Australia seems to constantly be in positions of losing pure strains from the hobby. Take the speices in the Vieja (or paraneetroplus idk they change them all the time) so many of them have been cross breed as people don't know what they have or they are intentionally attempting to spawn hybrids.

I have some pretty exciting growouts happening for me at the moment with my wild caught Hypselecara Temporalis pair, wild caught wavrini (although from what I have read getting a female is near impossible),  the Parachromis Multifasciatus and now also a group of 6 Parachromis Dovii which were a birthday present from a close friend. I have read that it will take them quite a while to out grow a 6x2x2 so by the time they have I plan to have a larger tank or I know people with larger tanks to move them on too. P. Dovii has been a bucket list fish for me as long as I can remember.

My last group of P. Multifasciatus turned xanthic at around 12cm which was quite early on. I guess in hindsight I guess that saved me from growing them for many years for it to happen then. I have always tried to find info on what could trigger then to turn later on or earlier in life, but I think no one knows. Here is a video of them in the growout tank. They are in there with some Melanotaenia Duboulayi as dithers. It is fascinating to see the dominate in the group when they are displaying dominance and flash the tradition adult colouration.  I did need to remove the driftwood and divide the tank in half as while the 6 P. Dovii are still small they will growout in here as well. I didn't want to risk just chucking them in there with the P. Multifasciatus and coming home to a massacre ahaha. I am not the greatest photographer so I think that coupled with the setting on the radion light has washed out some of the fish and made them look white. 

 

Shame about noticing deformities this early. Will free up some tank space for the future though haha. Hopefully having two batches from different spawns increases your chances of picking up some nice specimens. One problem with Americans is finding enough space to grow out your spawns and find the next generation. 

In regards to xanthic triggering, I would say its similar to that of the 'calico'/colour changer gene in reptiles in Australia (BHP/Olive pythons). They look like normal animals for the first few years of life and then begin to change after each shed. Sometimes its a slow change that takes many months/a year. Or can be pretty drastic change very quickly. People that have worked with the gene for many years still dont really understand the change. Most agreed on idea is that sexual maturity triggers the change. I have a feeling that the xanthic change is similar. As the freddys can revert back to normal colouring and then back again to xanthic. Black headed pythons have been observed to shed back to normal colours and then back again to its 'colour changer' form. 

Your collection is quickly becoming an aquarium I would pay a ticket to visit! Your friend knows you very well to get you Dovii as a gift. Happy belated birthday. 

 

 

 

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On 22/05/2020 at 2:24 AM, goldenswimmers said:

Very interested in this thread and how you are going on your hunt mate (I saw a bunch listed for a store in SA..and they also have some nice little gems turn up from time to time and WA is also another good location to see what's hiding amongst the cool fish over that way)..I managed to breed a whole bunch of these about 8 or so years back  and my girl was xanthic but the little guys all turned out super strong no duds etc but naturally id say a few turned xanthic later in life..not sure if this led to marcusandsherells group as I remember dealing with them back in the day...it's funny because overseas they love the xanthic genetics because it's so recessive and rare and yet here with our limited gene pool (evidence in how much the xanthic gene is almost 'common' in a few blood lines now) it's undesired...really does show how little we have had new blood injected into our fish...I believe this all came about because the original group that led to the xanthic factor was a small group of 6 or 7 fish imported way back and one had the gene..like I said shows how much we lack in the way of diverse genetics with our fish!...they are a beautiful fish and might be something to look out for but I noticed all my fry were golden...just saying this could be a sign of xanthic genetics being present (now that it's almost part of the regular DNA with a bunch of these guys)..I was just thinking with the nice white you get on the underside you might find babies with no xanthic genetics could be differently marked as juveniles...just an idea and from my own experiences...would be good to stabilise a blood line that doesn't have the xanthic factor and then keep it true and seperate to the xanthic ones getting about (as it sounds like you are trying to do so good stuff!)...the name of the store in SA with them is Amazing Amazon or something along those lines..but could be worth looking into further if interested..

 

Mine unfortunately didnt last long enough to confirm whether they were xanthic or not. My Festae broke through divider and got my young pair while I was away. Yeah I heard the last batch bought into Aus had xanthic fish and with big spawns it didnt take them long to flood the hobby. I am a huge morph guy. I love colour mutations. However, I dont believe its ethical to specifically breed animals that arent healthy. Unfortunately xanthic multifasciatus go blind and die early in most???? cases. Haven't seen many live too long. This is also one of the cases where I find natural coloration much nicer than the mutation. I am not sure if they were from your stock or not. My male had insane blues iridescent in his fins and general look was the same as your male posted. 

I will attach some photos of my male and female. It was maybe 6 years ago and she was 5-8cm. You can see size next to standard egg crate divider. Was gutted to find her headless haha. Was hoping the intense coloration at a young age would signify quality and not xanthic genetics. 

 

post-4081-14711633972182_thumb.jpgpost-4081-1471163397236_thumb.jpg

 

IMG_6756[1].PNG

IMG_6755[1].PNG

IMG_6740[1].PNG

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2 hours ago, hamishh34 said:

 

Mine unfortunately didnt last long enough to confirm whether they were xanthic or not. My Festae broke through divider and got my young pair while I was away. Yeah I heard the last batch bought into Aus had xanthic fish and with big spawns it didnt take them long to flood the hobby. I am a huge morph guy. I love colour mutations. However, I dont believe its ethical to specifically breed animals that arent healthy. Unfortunately xanthic multifasciatus go blind and die early in most???? cases. Haven't seen many live too long. This is also one of the cases where I find natural coloration much nicer than the mutation. I am not sure if they were from your stock or not. My male had insane blues iridescent in his fins and general look was the same as your male posted. 

I will attach some photos of my male and female. It was maybe 6 years ago and she was 5-8cm. You can see size next to standard egg crate divider. Was gutted to find her headless haha. Was hoping the intense coloration at a young age would signify quality and not xanthic genetics. 

 

post-4081-14711633972182_thumb.jpgpost-4081-1471163397236_thumb.jpg

 

IMG_6756[1].PNG

IMG_6755[1].PNG

IMG_6740[1].PNG

What is though that causes xanthic Multifasciatus to go blind, but with xanthic managuensis do not go blind? 
I personally am a fan of naturally occurring colour forms (not that xanthochromism isn’t a naturally occurring thing) 

That female and male Multifasciatus look really nice. I am organising to get another bath from a source in Melbourne to replace the Growouts with deformities in my first batch. I am hoping for the best so far as this is truely a beautiful species and is one of my favourite in the Parachromis genus  

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2 hours ago, hamishh34 said:

Shame about noticing deformities this early. Will free up some tank space for the future though haha. Hopefully having two batches from different spawns increases your chances of picking up some nice specimens. One problem with Americans is finding enough space to grow out your spawns and find the next generation. 

In regards to xanthic triggering, I would say its similar to that of the 'calico'/colour changer gene in reptiles in Australia (BHP/Olive pythons). They look like normal animals for the first few years of life and then begin to change after each shed. Sometimes its a slow change that takes many months/a year. Or can be pretty drastic change very quickly. People that have worked with the gene for many years still dont really understand the change. Most agreed on idea is that sexual maturity triggers the change. I have a feeling that the xanthic change is similar. As the freddys can revert back to normal colouring and then back again to xanthic. Black headed pythons have been observed to shed back to normal colours and then back again to its 'colour changer' form. 

Your collection is quickly becoming an aquarium I would pay a ticket to visit! Your friend knows you very well to get you Dovii as a gift. Happy belated birthday. 

 

 

 

That is interesting to read thank you for that. I wonder what could be the definitive cause and what can cause the swapping back and forth, I don’t think I have seen that in multifasciatus. 
 

Thank you for the happy birthday. My birthday is on the 1st of June so not belated yet! I might have another Rare species coming in a few weeks so if so I will consider That a belated birthday present to justify it >.< other then that I am gunning for some more fry tanks. 

Thank you mate! I am trying to accumulate a collection of high quality fish to get their fry out there in Australia given by the amount of deformed/ hybrid fish out there, as well as the import restrictions it has made things very hard in this country 

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38 minutes ago, Foskett96 said:

What is though that causes xanthic Multifasciatus to go blind, but with xanthic managuensis do not go blind? 
I personally am a fan of naturally occurring colour forms (not that xanthochromism isn’t a naturally occurring thing) 

That female and male Multifasciatus look really nice. I am organising to get another bath from a source in Melbourne to replace the Growouts with deformities in my first batch. I am hoping for the best so far as this is truely a beautiful species and is one of my favourite in the Parachromis genus  

I am not sure. I believe that different species have different reactions to certain genes. Say albino reptiles for example. Some take decades to be established (olives/spotted pythons) as they either die early or struggle breeding etc where the albino darwin python was more vigorous and took less work due to being overall a more healthy animal. Sorry for the constant reptile examples ha. Multifasciatus just seem to be one of the few xanthic animals that I have seen where the gene seems to be lethal longterm. Other examples like the one you mentioned don't seem to have anywhere near the same problems. 

I also thought that like albinos, xanthic animals eyes would be stripped of melanin and then become either damaged during the stripping process or become hypersensitive like albino animals. Having very poor vision when born and becoming blind as they age due to lighting/or natural deterioration etc. It also may have something to do with the condensed gene pool exacerbating the problem. Hard to tell when there is no outcrossing possible. 

Although years ago, I thought @Daharkazangel mentioned something about her male or female freddy fading and then developing natural colouration to some degree then fading again. So I may actually be wrong on that point as I cant seem to find it on the forum but it could have been on a FB group also. 

Oh I assumed since you got the Dovii that your bday must have already been. My bad! Look forward to seeing some more rare critters coming your way! 

The hobby has changed drastically. Not as many dedicated to preserving species etc. Its really cool being able to follow what youre doing. Has provided me much needed motivation. I wont even own any of the common Veija due to inbreeding. A few claim to have purebred ones but when they don't look anything like they typically should, paying $50-100 per fry is just taking the piss. 

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3 hours ago, hamishh34 said:

I am not sure. I believe that different species have different reactions to certain genes. Say albino reptiles for example. Some take decades to be established (olives/spotted pythons) as they either die early or struggle breeding etc where the albino darwin python was more vigorous and took less work due to being overall a more healthy animal. Sorry for the constant reptile examples ha. Multifasciatus just seem to be one of the few xanthic animals that I have seen where the gene seems to be lethal longterm. Other examples like the one you mentioned don't seem to have anywhere near the same problems. 

I also thought that like albinos, xanthic animals eyes would be stripped of melanin and then become either damaged during the stripping process or become hypersensitive like albino animals. Having very poor vision when born and becoming blind as they age due to lighting/or natural deterioration etc. It also may have something to do with the condensed gene pool exacerbating the problem. Hard to tell when there is no outcrossing possible. 

Although years ago, I thought @Daharkazangel mentioned something about her male or female freddy fading and then developing natural colouration to some degree then fading again. So I may actually be wrong on that point as I cant seem to find it on the forum but it could have been on a FB group also. 

Oh I assumed since you got the Dovii that your bday must have already been. My bad! Look forward to seeing some more rare critters coming your way! 

The hobby has changed drastically. Not as many dedicated to preserving species etc. Its really cool being able to follow what youre doing. Has provided me much needed motivation. I wont even own any of the common Veija due to inbreeding. A few claim to have purebred ones but when they don't look anything like they typically should, paying $50-100 per fry is just taking the piss. 

If research is done into what triggers the change/ what causes the adverse affects on the fish from it, I would be super interested into reading it. As well as seeing the post of the Multifasciatus that turned back to original colouring before turning xanthic again. 

I am super excited for the rare species I have coming in a few weeks. It has been on the top of my bucket list for a long time as I was ready to give up. I feel pretty lucky given the species I have had the opportunity to keep. Although I don’t think luck plays a part as the people/ connections you have.

Labyrinth aquarium has pure Vieja species in stock. I believe at the moment off the top of my head the have melanurum ‘Belize’ and maculicauda but the maculicauda aren’t for sale. Not sure if you are looking for Vieja ahaha

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Smith's aquarium currently has a good batch of multifasciatus in stock Foskett96 :dance:

I never found any of my xanthic guys going blind (I had none go blind including my main breeding pair :?) and I actually think the xanthic genetics have morphed or mutated being so significant in such a small group and then regularly featured in the fishes DNA so I wasn't aware of the blind effects being caused or at least not with the fish I was working with or produced :?

And have to second what was just said with some good Veija still out there Hamish just have to go with good sources..I grabbed some Synspilum from Labyrinth a little while back and you can definitely see the difference in genetics with well sourced fish coming through Andrew (he really knows his fish and is well aware of the duds getting around)... 

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5 hours ago, goldenswimmers said:

Smith's aquarium currently has a good batch of multifasciatus in stock Foskett96 :dance:

I never found any of my xanthic guys going blind (I had none go blind including my main breeding pair :?) and I actually think the xanthic genetics have morphed or mutated being so significant in such a small group and then regularly featured in the fishes DNA so I wasn't aware of the blind effects being caused or at least not with the fish I was working with or produced :?

And have to second what was just said with some good Veija still out there Hamish just have to go with good sources..I grabbed some Synspilum from Labyrinth a little while back and you can definitely see the difference in genetics with well sourced fish coming through Andrew (he really knows his fish and is well aware of the duds getting around)... 

Did you have the xanthic pair for a few years? I was curious to whether it was some other genetics within the fish that were causing blindness or types of lighting used etc that may have damaged particular specimens eyes. As yours is the first pair I have heard of not dying early. Like I said earlier, I am a big fan of a lot of mutations but didnt want to breed xanthic if it was 'lethal' but very good news if yours were fine! Inbreeding emphasizes both good and bad genetics so if blindness was a separate gene now appearing more due to lack of diversity it wouldnt surprise me either.  

I have just reread what I said on veija. I mean hybridizing not inbreeding -.- my apologies. I have defiantly seen some nice ones around periodically. I am just not a big fan of a lot of people who advertise them as a certain species when they dont look like they should. Making it very unlikely that they're pure. The common excuse is theres no new stock. Although thats true, quality specimens can be found if people take more time to look. Have heard nothing but great things about labyrintth. I look forward to getting some of their stock in the near future. Just a shame that theyre in sydney  and i cant look myself.  I have heard they care about pure and quality animals a priority. I will always support a shop like that. 

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Yeah I think the xanthic situation we have is unique so it's hard to really know what is going to happen with the genetics of these guys...I bought a group of 5 adults and I never had a sight issue or ever saw it with fry produced and the previous owner also never had an issue so I can't comment on that occurring :? My female who produced a lot of fry ended up totally yellow from the xanthic genes and never had any health issues...this is why I think the xanthic genes may not make the stock as weak as we think in our unique Australian situation ...these guys are isolated and the xanthic gene is so heavily featured with the original stock we had.. it would  be 'normal' in a sense for this type of fish we have now...but it's just what I saw with my group and I can't speak for others or what may have happened with other fish....

Sorry but had to show you the Synspilum I have from Andrew (Labyrinth) because I know what you mean with the sad stuff you see passed off with shops and that's the worst because that's who people trust the most in this hobby but unfortunately some have no idea...the Synspilum below is lucky to be a year old and already looks great..it's also the runt of the group :)

Also chucked in a shot or two of mumma multi :ewink: as she was "transforming" .. miss her (was sold when I closed my little fishroom down) and she was a great fish 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 05/06/2020 at 9:27 AM, goldenswimmers said:

Yeah I think the xanthic situation we have is unique so it's hard to really know what is going to happen with the genetics of these guys...I bought a group of 5 adults and I never had a sight issue or ever saw it with fry produced and the previous owner also never had an issue so I can't comment on that occurring :? My female who produced a lot of fry ended up totally yellow from the xanthic genes and never had any health issues...this is why I think the xanthic genes may not make the stock as weak as we think in our unique Australian situation ...these guys are isolated and the xanthic gene is so heavily featured with the original stock we had.. it would  be 'normal' in a sense for this type of fish we have now...but it's just what I saw with my group and I can't speak for others or what may have happened with other fish....

Sorry but had to show you the Synspilum I have from Andrew (Labyrinth) because I know what you mean with the sad stuff you see passed off with shops and that's the worst because that's who people trust the most in this hobby but unfortunately some have no idea...the Synspilum below is lucky to be a year old and already looks great..it's also the runt of the group :)

Also chucked in a shot or two of mumma multi :ewink: as she was "transforming" .. miss her (was sold when I closed my little fishroom down) and she was a great fish 

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_20200605_032533.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_20200605_045740.jpg

IMG_20200605_032817.jpg

SAM_7447.jpg

SAM_7449.jpg

It sucks how we get in such a limited number of this species when it arrived, and such a high percentage were carrying this rare gene. If it does not affect things like sight with the fish I guess theoretically it is just a personal option about which is preferred, and for my it is the normal form for this species. Like I have said the last group I had begun turning xanthic pretty early on around 12cm which really sucked so I am hoping for better luck with the growout group I currently have now.

Beautiful Synspilum or as I believe they are classified  as Melanura. You can really tell when a fish looks this good that it is quality compared to some of the other low quality fish that are in such high numbers in Australia

I have emailed smith's and I am waiting for photos of the fish they have in stock. I don't think I am willing to just buy them without seeing them as with this species I have noticed a high number of deformities in the growouts I have gotten, whether that being with the dorsal fin not being connected to the first bony fin ray, a face bent to one side slightly, or even the ventral fins pushed to one side. I would love to be able to see those in stock and Smith's and hopefully grab some to somewhat increase the genetic diversity (well, given by the fact of how little arrived in the beginning, at least to try and have two different sources to increase my chances of getting a pair that don't turn xanthic). Although shipping at the moment may be slightly hard, I do think I have been told by them if I organise a courier they will prepare the fish and give them to the courier for me, but I am not very aware of how to do that. Would really help if I knew someone who lived close to Smith's that would be able to ship them to be, but unfortunately I do not.

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