jonoz Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Simply put, what is your opinion? bioballs? hagan biomax? seachem matrix? eheim ehfisubstrat? or something else you find works a treat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japes Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 What kind of filtration setup will the media be used in? Bioballs for Wet/Dry. They're cheap and fill space well. No experience with the Hagen product, but Seachem Matrix and all of the EHFI products are top notch for use in canisters or fully submerged filtration setups. I'm running 2 Eheim Classic Canisters with their standard packaged bio-media (EHFI Mech, EHFI Substrat (Pro in the 2217) and the Mech pads and it works great. If you're filling up big canisters be prepared to fork out some serious cash, though. It isn't cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorman Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 IMO Matrix is the best product for use in most filtration set ups Though it isnt cheap it all depends on where you buy it I sell bulk Matrix here for as cheap as $13 a litre Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoz Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Well, what im running is an FX5 and its got 5L of bio noodles in the bottom 2 trays then 2L of JBL MicroMec in the top tray. Russ @ RPC recommended it in place of Matrix so just wanted to get some opinions on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltec Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I'm with brad, Matrix is very hard to beat.. I was recomended it about 10yrs ago instead of bio balls, purely as its surface area blows everything else out of the water. I converted my sump, its construction is so simple ( I love the KISS principle. ) They suggested getting a 4l bucket of Pond Matrix, take the lid off, drill some holes in the bottom, and put a shower head above it. I went a little more high tech, using some 12" pipe, with Pond Matrix, coral and my old bioballs, still using the shower head. Even without the balls, I have just under 4000l in my heavily stocked system, and my Amonia and Nitrites are always 0. I'd be very surprised if you could find anything else that would treat 4000l with only 4l. Now all I need to do is use Purigen to remove the Nitrates, water changes aren't helping as the tap is 30ppm ATM (higher than the system), need to filter water b4 adding to system!!!! Bloody SEQWater. Its certainly one way to stop us using the water!!! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbozed Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 ...Matrix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumpie Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 one word and for smileys look at the post above mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenslandeR Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 i would recommend matrix, although efhi substat pro is better, its like twice the price of matrix which prices itself out of the market IMO, have both of these running in my canisters, just got 20L of matrix for the new sump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlands Pet Centre Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Hi guys Here are some facts about the products mentioned. Hagen Biomax is a porous biological ceramic material for supporting massive colonies of beneficial bacteria. I could not find any facts on effective surface area with this product, but being ceramic based I can't see how it would be anywhere near as effective as the following 3 products. JBL MicroMec is a highly porous bio filter material made from sintered glass which allows the efficient biological breakdown of pollutants. It is therefore particularly good for intensive biological long-term filtering in freshwater and marine aquariums. The special conical tunnel pore structure provides beneficial cleansing micro-organisms with the best possible conditions for colonisation. Compared to rings, the greater material thickness of the irregular pellets allows different bacteria to colonise the filter in layers. Ammonium and nitrite are efficiently broken down in the outer layers, whilst the optimum conditions for the bacterial breakdown of nitrate are created in the inner section. The optimum bulk density is extremely effective even in small filters. 1 litre has 1500 m2 effective surface. Eheim Substrat Pro is a similar product but it only does 450 m2/litre. Seachem Matrix is a highly porous media designed to provide exceptionally efficient biofiltration for single site removal of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate from freshwater, marine, and reef aquaria. Each litre of Matrix provides over 1600 m2 effective surface. Although Matrix has a slightly higher effective surface area, you can fit a lot more JBL MicroMec in the same space, effectively making the JBL MicroMec far more efficient. Now don't get me wrong, I am a big Matrix fan and it is used extensively in the filtration systems in our shop. The JBL MicroMec is a much more recently designed product and is as yet relatively unknown in Australia. We are now recommending it because of the features and comparisons listed above and the fact that it is cheaper than Matrix. In fact when comparing sales we would easily sell 10 JBL MicroMec to 1 Matrix these days. We will still continue to sell both products until something better comes along as I am sure it will. Hope this helps clarify things a bit. Regards Russ PS Jonoz is using JBL MicroMec and Sintered Glass Bio Noodles (Not Ceramic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenslandeR Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 been trying to find out where you got the info on the m2/l russ i agree with substrat pro does 450m2/l however if you look at seachems site it claims that matrix holds 160, 000 cm2/l which equals 160m2/l as there are 1000 square cm's in a cubic metre couldn't find anything on the jbl but would love to see figures for this as well josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenslandeR Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 just had a look at the jbl website and they claim to have the 1500m2/l surface area, sounds good only thing i would be worried about is it getting clogged due to being so fine, seems reasonably priced and would be worth giving a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlands Pet Centre Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hi Josh We are talking about square centimetres (cm2) converting to square metres (m2) and not cubic metres (m3). In this case I would think you would divide 160 000cm2 by 100 to get an answer of 1 600m2. I am fairly confident this is correct. If Matrix was only 160m2 it would be a very poor performer compared to the others. If I am wrong, Matrix would appear to be far behind the rest, however I don't beleive that this is the case. If anyone else would like to check the figures please do so. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japes Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I just had a quick look over the figures and Matrix equates to 16m^2 per liter. 1 square meter = 10 000 square centimeters. What this means for the products, I don't know. I'm sure they're all very effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenslandeR Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 U or WE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlands Pet Centre Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hey Ryan That makes Matrix look worse at only 16m2/litre. I'll look into this further, it doesn't make sense. I might even call Seachem on Monday to clarify. Matrix can't be that far behind the others. It has been around for a while though. If I can get someone at Seachem that knows what they are talking about, I'll let everyone know the answer. At this stage the JBL MicroMec is looking pretty good. Josh makes a good point about clogging though. The prefilter for the MicroMec would have to be very good at not letting larger particles through. Anyway, we will wait and see. The Matrix still performs well and we all get great results from it so we won't write it off just yet. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japes Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Anyway, we will wait and see. The Matrix still performs well and we all get great results from it so we won't write it off just yet. Yeah exactly, it's either an issue with the figures Seachem have stated, or theres a lot going on 'beneath the surface' ( ) of Matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenslandeR Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 some more interesting reading to bio media http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... rat+pro+vs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacherman Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Where can I get hold of some of the JBL Micro mech, preferable Northside? I'd like to try it in small powerfilters, particularly if it can be packed in tighter that matrix, which I was thinking of getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlands Pet Centre Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Hi Teacherman I don't know of any shops on the Northside, however I beleive most Aquarium Shops would stock it. I think it has a recommended retail price of about $35.00. We sell it to QLDAF Members for $15.70 and although not confirmed it may be even cheaper on the open night after the Bayfish Trip. My only problem is that since we responded to this thread we have sold out of the 11 remaining boxes we had in stock. We order this product in lots of 48 and we should have it back in stock by this Thursday in case anyone else was coming in to buy some. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlands Pet Centre Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Some updated information: I have been in contact with all 3 companies and these are the surface areas for the following products that we have been discussing: JBL MicroMec 1500m2/ltr Eheim Sub Pro 450m2/ltr Seachem Matrix 16m2/ltr JBL have sent me pictures of MicroMec under a microscope and some graphs. They have advised that it will last a lifetime due to it being made of sintered glass and this does not change the structure. JBL MicroMec has been cleaned after being produced and therefore it doesn't increase conductivity of the water. Eheim still contains salt from the manufacturing process and increases conductivity. Eheim Sub Pro will be discussed in the Eheim talk on the Bayfish Trip. They still insist there product is better so we will wait and see what they have to say. It should be quite interesting. I myself am looking forward to the Eheim talk. I have spoken to both Seachem Australia and Seachem USA and this is there response: Hello Russell, Thank you for your inquiry. To be quite honest, these numbers that the other companies are giving seem rather exaggerated. We are going to order samples of these other competitor's products and run some tests to see how they compare to Matrix. This will obviously take some time for us to do, but we will get back to you as soon as we get some numbers to compare. We are very interested to see whether or not these numbers are accurate. Let us know if we can be of any further assistance in the meantime. Tech Support 10201 Tech Support So there you have it. Hopefully Seachem USA will come back with some interesting results. I would prefer an independent assessment however Seachem is a reputable company so I'm sure we will get reliable results. In my opinion, at this stage anyway, they will all probably eventually provide the required bio load needed. I think the JBL MicroMec and Eheim Sub Pro will just do it faster and with much smaller amounts. I do beleive however both JBL MicroMec and Eheim Sub Pro will require better prefilters to ensure they remain free of particles that can cause clogging. In fact both these companies specifically recommend it. At the open night following the Bayfish Trip, the JBL rep will be demonstrating the absorbancy of JBL MicroMec using a coloured liquid. I have seen this and it shows how the liquid passes all of the way through and how other media only absorbs close to the surface. It is a good little demo. Anyway as soon as I get any further information, I will post it here. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoz Posted June 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Here are some pics of the MicroMec box for all thats interested in spotting it out and about. Sorry about my bad photos I rushed them. What is this here also about MicroMec removing Nitrates as well? My understanding unless Im wrong was that Nitrates were unremovable by filtration and that is why a water change is required? Clarification? I would recommend going to see Russ @ RPC for all those northsiders even. I know thats what I do. Russ, I'd also be really keen to see what other products JBL has for filters as on the packaging they recommend MicroMec for only a part of the filter media... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glyde Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 i bought a bunch of boxes of this stuff to try out, they are german here is their site they have heaps of products not just media, http://www.jbl.de/factmanager/index.php?lang=en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlands Pet Centre Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Thanks for the pics Jon. There are many other JBL products available. I have put a few others on the Specials page for the Bayfish Trip. We are expanding our JBL range slowly. I am very confident in this brand however I like to do research and be satisfied with the quality of it before I advertise that I have it in any volumes. I have used and tested all of the products on the JBL specials list (excluding the PhosEx ultra) with great results. I actually got the PhosEx ultra in after seeing the results of it being used on a customers tank. It was quite remarkable. I just haven't personally tested it yet. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke83 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 i use aquaclay i recken its awsome stuff http://www.aquaclay.com.au/engl_start.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoz Posted July 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 i use aquaclay i recken its awsome stuffhttp://www.aquaclay.com.au/engl_start.htm You use that in your filter or as the substrate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
