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darkangel

electric blue convicts

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here are a few pages i found on them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduran_red_point

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/306.htm

http://www.fryangle.com/images/FT-Jun%2004.pdf

look at page 5 on this one.

http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=796

if u don't feel like reading all of this the second last post by fishfarm may be of interest.

if anyone finds out anything else let me know!

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EBJD are not Hybrids

Tankbuster this was proven to you from the guys who original bred them on a different forum

They are selectivly bred for the Blue

As some of those sites agree someone has been breeding the convicts with RHP though they have found a similiar fish in the wild

I doubt they will be Electric Blue convicts more then likely a very similair looking fish they poeple have just called a convict as it looks similiar

Ill try and do some more research later and see what I can find

Brad

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just wondering has anyone had any colours other than red on their female convicts?? i just looked at my girl and she seems to have gone a bluey green on her anal fins and on part of her belly. she laid a few days ago. is this normal?? will get some pics within half an hour or so.

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yeah u can get convicts with a light shade of yellow and blue on top fins (females)

but grum there is no proth that ebjd r hybrid or not i am just making a educated guess since these things havnt been found untill resently and on the other forum they say that they r a compleatly diff fish to the jd and they dont no much info on them like habitat and stuff so i would have thought it would be a need breed (hybird) so dont go around say i have money issues and i am trying to cover it up buy saying there hybird

i would like to c one peace of info u have the proves they r not hybird

and since male convicts will breed with anything in the tank pritty much its posable

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First of all "proth" and "educated" shouldnt be used in the same sentence.

Second of all, just because its new doesnt mean its a hybrid, when your head first poked out im sure your mum didnt scream "its a freak".

I really consider it like calling Aussies lazy, its a generalisation based on no fact but your opinion which you have already decided on.

So by asking if I have any "proof"? that these are not hybrid asumes they are, which is completely against human instincts of discovery.

I have no doubt that hundreds of years ago you would have agreed that the earth was flat, Why not have an imagination? Think outside the square? The glass is half full?

Only a fool argues that something doesnt exist, a smart man argues why not and can never be proven wrong!

Think about that.

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Well Tankbuster I suggest you do some research before claiming there is no proof they are a real species

http://www.tropicalresources.net/phpBB2 ... s_blue.php

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... d&&start=0

This link is a discussion about them starting 4 years ago

bigguapote(Jeff Rapps) is one of the original breeders of these guys who has had DNA testing of these guys and they have found no difference between them and regular JD

Also if they were a hybrid you wouldnt get all the fry looking like JD

There would have to be a percentage that looks like either side of the family

http://www.elacuarista.com/secciones/tfhblue.htm

This is an article written for TFH magazine about these guys as well

As always you will have to make up your own mind about them but there is alot of information out there if your willing to look

IMO its a line bred JD though still a pure JD

Brad

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This originally comes from the site that hosts the "originator" of blue dempseys site.

http://www.elacuarista.com/inicio.htm

Historial:

En el criadero se utilizan reproductores portadores del gen azul que se diferencian poco o nada de un Jack Dempsey común. Pero, para ser sinceros con otros aficionados o profesionales que intenten la reproducción, hay que decir que antes de obtener el Dempsey Blue, hubo cruzas espontáneas entre Nandopsis (x Cichlasoma) octofasciatus y otras variedades de cíclidos centroamericanos, tales como Parapetenia (x Heros) (xCichlasoma) managuense(Günter 1869, foto de arriba) y Heros (xCichlasoma) synspilum (Hubbs 1935, foto de abajo), que produjeron crías infértiles si se las cruza entre sí.

Translated

Record:

In the breeding ground there are used carrying breeding animals of the blue gene that differentiate little or nothing of a common Jack Dempsey. But, to be sincere with other fans or professionals who try the reproduction, it is necessary to say that, before obtaining Dempsey Blue, there was a spontaneous cross between Nandopsis (x Cichlasoma) octofasciatus and other varieties of Central American, such cíclidos as Parapetenia (x Heros) (xCichlasoma) managuense (Günter 1869, photo of above) and Heros (xCichlasoma) synspilum (Hubbs 1935, photo of below), that unfertile babies produced if one crosses them between yes.

De los ejemplares obtenidos existía un número con todos los rasgos de N. octofasciatum, algunos con rasgos indefinidos y otros con rasgos de Heros (xCichlasoma) managuense. Finalmente se descartaron todos aquellos que no tuvieran rasgos de Jack Dempsey, por lo que suponemos que la aparición del gen azul debe provenir de alguno de los ejemplares cruzados con H. managuense pero que tienen toda la apariencia de N. octofasciatum.

Translated

Of the obtained copies a number existed with all the features of N. octofasciatum, some with indefinite features and others with features of Heros (xCichlasoma) managuense. Finally there discarded all those that did not have features of Jack Dempsey, for what we suppose that the appearance of the blue gene must come from some of the copies crossed with H. managuense but that they have the whole appearance of N. octofasciatum

bigguapote(Jeff Rapps) is one of the original breeders of these guys who has had DNA testing of these guys and they have found no difference between them and regular JD

dont quote me on this but japps doesent breed them , he gets them from a n importer

and to actually breed these guys you have to breed a blue to a normal then breed one of thier offspring that carries the blue genes back to a blue again to finally get more blues ( confusing isnt it lol )

Also if they were a hybrid you wouldnt get all the fry looking like JD

There would have to be a percentage that looks like either side of the family

some cut and pasting from the link i posted in my other post time lol

hybrids usually have more variation
hyrbids like flowerhorns - yes

hybrids crossed with only one other species then back to it's own and controled - no - Blood parrots are a perfect example. Same with O.B. Peacocks,etc..

personally i think they are hybrids but if you wish to believe they are pure then i wont hold it against you , every one is entitled to their beliefs

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ok, for dumb ppl like me how do u get them all blue? lol

so that fish is definately a honduran red point or would it more than likely have been crossed with a convict somwhere along the way?? sorry i'm all confused now. it's not very hard to confuse me though. :D

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As far as I know Jeff Rapps has bred them but doesnt do it enough to keep up commercially

The DNA testing for me is proof enough that they are the same species

On a whole though I guess we will never know for sure cos its going to be impossible to prove either way

Brad

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its like a koi carp, these are not hybrid fish they are selectivly bred to show one genetic strain over another. if you breed convicts with blue in them with other convicts with blue in them then the chance their ofspring will have blue in them will be high. you just keep breeding the animals with the desired trait and walllah! a convict thats blue.

Doesnt mean its been crossed.

PS hybids cant breed to produce fertile offspring by the way, there for they are not hybred.

like a mule

matt

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actually it depends whats in the hybrid , take flower horns for example , they are mainly made up of amphilophus sp and you put two together and you can get fry( sadly ) , same with red devils most of them here are red devil x midas hybrids and you see them successfully breeding all the time yet when you have hybrids like blood parrots and the like they are mainly infertile

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