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kasman

Texas variants.

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I have a few texas, some growing, some adult.

Just wanting to clear up the variants and what I have.

This is how I see it....

Herichthys cyanoguttatus - common name "texas". Small spots. Not much green.

Herichthys carpintis - large spots, green colour. Sold as "super green"

Herichthys carpintis "escondido" - large spots, green colour and worming pattern under eyes/gill plate. Aslo sold as "super green".

How did I go?

Edited by kasman
did more googling :)
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well I have a few juvies from this exact pair - Herichthys carpintis "escondido"

attachment.php?attachmentid=12535&stc=1&d=1312968663

and now a big boy like this one - Herichthys carpintis

attachment.php?attachmentid=12534&stc=1&d=1312968643

both what I think are sold as super green texas.

was going to grow up a female to pair up with the big guy.

But it seems I'd be compromising the "escondido" trait of the worming if I did.

Maybe it doesnt matter?

Edited by kasman
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From my understanding and I've spent hours googling, yes, carpintis are generally called supergreens, but the original intent of the name was that it was to be applied only to escondido. Not only do escondido have worming on the face, they also have the largest spots.............very little in it from the non escondido carpintis, but definitely there. there's a thread on it on monster fishkeepers somewhere and when you actually see the two side by side, you can clearly see the difference. the escondido also has underlying black vertical bars in the latter half of it's body which get lost once the rear half of the fish turns deep green when in spawning condition. they do not go dark all over but only in the latter half and under the chin. They can also turn blue.

The vertical banding at rear and beard whilst pale the female at rear is blue

hokey, heres my boy which after all this talk im sure he's a Herichthys carpintis. A little beat up and only been in the tank a few days but he's looking good...

attachment.php?attachmentid=12564&stc=1&d=1313137804

attachment.php?attachmentid=12565&stc=1&d=1313137832

I bought him thinking he'd be some good fresh blood for some of your escons once I grow up a few girls.

But dont think I will now, not the best idea to cross breed the subtle variants. Might just keep him in a display. The fam loves him already

Edited by kasman
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anyone keeping texas??

Not me :P

Mate, don't do it. If you want any more escondido to keep 'em pure, just let me know.

That said, you got a nice specimen of carpinti there. Even if he had worming on his face, he would not be an escondido. Can you see the difference in size of the spots? Bigger than a "straight" tex but not as big as those in your first pic which are only small escondidos. If they were the same size fish as the carpinti, you would notice the bigger spots even more.

Edited by bidkev
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Not me :P

Mate, don't do it. If you want any more escondido to keep 'em pure, just let me know.

That said, you got a nice specimen of carpinti there. Even if he had worming on his face, he would not be an escondido. Can you see the difference in size of the spots? Bigger than a "straight" tex but not as big as those in your first pic which are only small escondidos. If they were the same size fish as the carpinti, you would notice the bigger spots even more.

yep, I now see what you mean with the spots. The carpinti are right in between the other 2 in size.

I ended up with 7 good esondido that made it out of the batch I got off you, so thats enough for a pair if I want to interbreed siblings. But I think I'll bide my time and pic up a mature male or female once the little ones have grown up. These are going to be the one fish I have a proper crack at breeding, so I'll take my time and get some mixed blood.

So the carpinti is taking up a tank on his own now, I'll accept fate and reside to the fact another tank is needed :) haha.

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I ended up with 7 good esondido that made it out of the batch I got off you, so thats enough for a pair if I want to interbreed siblings. But I think I'll bide my time and pic up a mature male or female once the little ones have grown up.

They are hard to distinguish when they're small so lfs may well be selling carpinti and not escondido. I bought 4 different lots of supergreen and wasted time growing 'em on only to find when they grew that they weren't escondido. The only luck I had was when I bought 'em from Smiths...........Mark's supergreen turned out to be escondido

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Your onto it mate, that was my next question - knowing what you have when they're small. Taking a punt by the sounds of it.

It probably wont be too bad to get a few from Smiths, same bloodline but a generation gap if theyre from the same supplier and same parents. Who knows?

$20 a pop, but at least its a good chance theyre esondido. Might quiz Mark about it again.

Most of those little guys I got off you are hitting 3-4cm now, hows the rest of the batch going??

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Your onto it mate, that was my next question - knowing what you have when they're small. Taking a punt by the sounds of it.

It probably wont be too bad to get a few from Smiths, same bloodline but a generation gap if theyre from the same supplier and same parents. Who knows?

$20 a pop, but at least its a good chance theyre esondido. Might quiz Mark about it again.

Most of those little guys I got off you are hitting 3-4cm now, hows the rest of the batch going??

About the same. The problem is mate, even if you buy from a different lfs, the amount of fry that some americans put out, particularly texas, it's likely that one lfs has the same litter as another lfs as the wholesaler more than likely has sold to more than one shop. Texas can drop 1000 fry or more and if a wholesaler only raises half, that's 500. What lfs carry more than 50 in a tank? That means the wholesaler (or even amateur breeder) has shipped to 10 lfs in their locality so the likelihood of you getting different bloodlines without wild caught coming in is pretty slim. It's sad, but we have to work with what we can get.

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About the same. The problem is mate, even if you buy from a different lfs, the amount of fry that some americans put out, particularly texas, it's likely that one lfs has the same litter as another lfs as the wholesaler more than likely has sold to more than one shop. Texas can drop 1000 fry or more and if a wholesaler only raises half, that's 500. What lfs carry more than 50 in a tank? That means the wholesaler (or even amateur breeder) has shipped to 10 lfs in their locality so the likelihood of you getting different bloodlines without wild caught coming in is pretty slim. It's sad, but we have to work with what we can get.

crap.

So really unless Im going to ship some from Sydney or Perth, its highly likely that I will be breeding closely related fish no matter what I do.

.....(whispering quietly) I may aswell breed em back amongst themselves. It just makes me cringe lol.

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crap.

So really unless Im going to ship some from Sydney or Perth, its highly likely that I will be breeding closely related fish no matter what I do.

.....(whispering quietly) I may aswell breed em back amongst themselves. It just makes me cringe lol.

Even then you can't be sure as wholesalers ship country wide. Exactly the same with imports. The majority come from fish farms, even many of those labelled "wild caught". A pool in the Amazon rainforest or a mexican lake is likely to yield a whole batch of siblings in one net, so even true wild caught, you can not be certain. The odds are better yes, but no certainty, unless you get two texas for example proven to be from a different locality, and then, they may be variants as is so often the case with S americans such as geos. Labels on fish are like labels on wine in many cases...............there's an air of snobbery about where fish come from very similar to those folk who reckon to be wine officianados............they wouldn't know one from another if there wasn't a label on the bottle. So it is with fish, you only have the lfs word for it, and as much as you trust 'em, they only have the wholesalers word for it, and as much as he trusts them, they only have the fish farm or collectors word for it. In particular, there's very little collecting going on now due to many gov'ts awakening to a need to conserve stock.

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there's very little collecting going on now due to many gov'ts awakening to a need to conserve stock.

Wouldnt that be a good reason to pursue a different bloodline when breeding?

But I see your point, you can make every effort which is costly and time consuming when at the end of the day it could all be for nothing.

sounds like it would be hard to get a different bloodline :$

good luck if you do pursue it mate

and thanks heaps for taking that texas he looks so much better already :)

Mate the swap was great, its nice when no money changes hands. The Flavu are a nice display fish and might provide your jag and RD with some feeders :)

By the way, loved your Red devil mate, I reckon he will rival Kev's "http://www.qldaf.com/forums/photography-video-lounge-23/satan-47181/" for top dog devil soon.

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yeah ive got a couple of mates that are keen on some babys and then i think they will be feeders haha

and yeah ive seen a few ugly devils out there but kev's is great im hoping mine grows up well :) hes starting to get his hump and stuff

and my tank is weird now it has all the aggression but the fish all look totally fine haha

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