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shay

Building a sump for 8X2X2

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depends on your stocking mate.

if you have only a small amount of fish in there a sponge will be good enough - hence a 2ft sump would be good enough.

I mean whats the volume of an FX5??

10L?

a 2fter is about 60L. thats alot of media.

I think alot of people OVER OVER OVER OVER FILTER.

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yeh but my point is, and not singling out shay at all, that people ask about filtration recommendations, and people give advice, but stock levels are never mentioned.

when the 2 go hand in hand.

not really your stock levels decide how often you should water change to keep your nitrates at a acceptable level.

id rather over filter to allow for any future changes.

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not really your stock levels decide how often you should water change to keep your nitrates at a acceptable level.

id rather over filter to allow for any future changes.

Yep x 2

Bigger is better when it comes to filtration.

If the topic was regarding a 2 foot tank then yeah a sponge would suffice, but being an 8x2x2 a four foot sump is perfect.

You can keep a few tropicals and then when you change your mind and want to keep a 50+ African display tank, you have the option without having to change the filtration.

Sumps are very versatile in that manner, and the best way to filter larger sized tanks IMO.

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when the power goes out, you will have upto 90L of water running back down into the sump. (depending on plumbing configuration)

you then need to allow space for filter media.

also a point that is allways overlooked is to allow room for evaporation, because as the week goes by water will evaporate and the level of water in the sump will drop and you dont want your sump running dry.

in my opinion your sump should hold about 250L , this will allow enough space for the backflow, filter media and evaporation room.

Edited by simmo2302
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id personally get a 4x2x1.5 sump this is a good size and could handle a few tanks if you ever wished to.

heres a friends sump 4x2x1.5 it can handle 35+ liters of k1 and has 20 liters of clay balls and 1000 bio balls , i reckon it could safely handle 400 grams of feed per day

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FX5 filter volume is 6L - I think thats right?

So a 4ft sump has 50x the capactiy at about 325L.

So doing a basic compare thats like putting 50 Fx5's on an 8fter.

A little OTT?

But srsly, if Im missing a point or not understanding something pls let me know...??

Or is an FX5 more efficient cuz its pressurised???

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FX5 filter volume is 6L - I think thats right?

So a 4ft sump has 50x the capactiy at about 325L.

So doing a basic compare thats like putting 50 Fx5's on an 8fter.

A little OTT?

But srsly, if Im missing a point or not understanding something pls let me know...??

Or is an FX5 more efficient cuz its pressurised???

Do you have a sump yourself?

At best, only about 40% of the total volume of a sump tank would be media, give or take depending on the design...

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haha, no man I dont have a sump.

Back to my original point, was that the size of your filter whatever you have, canister or sump, your stocking levels ultimately determine this.

Yes, bigger is better. heck yes of course it is.

But x number of fish only produce a certain amount of amonia, as long as your filter is sufficiently converting this amonia into safer chemicals such as nitrite and nitrate then no need to use something bigger.

I dont have $$$$ to burn thats for sure, so I use the bare minimum and keep an eye on water quality and feeding amounts.

If I had a 4x2x1.5 Id be throwing fish in it not filling it with bioballs lol!

But as I said man, Im here to learn, not trying to tell you or anyone I am the way the truth and the light, just asking questions :)

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I have a 6'x2.5'x2' (LxWxH) tank with a 4'x18"x18" Sump with 22L of Matrix, 1 square metre of Jap Matt, 500ml Purigen, 200x 38mm Bio Balls plus a Dacron Prefilter :)

My sump could handle 10x my tank HAHAHA, but i also have a 40cm Giant Gourami, 22cm BGK, 7x Clown Loaches, 2x L168, 15cm Albino Salfin Pleco, and a 11cm Albino Male BN. Alot of POOP in my tank (but you never see any POOP laying around, always looks clean ;)), i only do a 200-250L waterchange & gravel clean every 2weeks :egrin: 1hr of maintenance every 2weeks is well worth the extra money on filtration!! i could probably go even longer than 2 weeks if i was to go on holidays somewhere....... :)

YOU CAN NEVER OVER FILTRATE!!

Edited by Merkinater
Spelling......Shocking today HAHAHA
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Would a 4X12X18 suffice, and also any building instructions and ideas inc media, structure, bulk heads, overflow and pump sizes would be awesome. ps this tank will be used for natives only.

This is a simple WET & DRY diy sump, modeled on an aru sump

I pretty much just winged it with regards to how much water would drain back to the sump in a power outage, so was lucky in that respect.

Im not saying this is the best design and what you should do, but it works well and I dont have any problems with it, so use this as a guide if you like, its filtering an 8x2x2.

Sump Dimensions = 1200x400x500(h) mm

standard tees with drilled caps on all 4 drains (40mm) all pipe clear flexible for noise reduction

tee.jpg

all 4 drains release into top of sump with outlets submerged to trap noise in pipework

outlets.jpg

-water filters through one layer of coarse (ish) washable foam

-then through 2 layers of micropad

-driptray

-biocubes (wetdry area) for aerobic colonies

-eggcrate

-coral rubble and shell grit mix for aneorbic colonies and buffering properties (neyund sells the shell grit, great stuff)

-japmat, bit more surface area for bio and stops shell grit dropping through

-eggcrate

water then flows to each end of sump over baffles and is returned via 2 x 3500lph jhq (cheapy) pumps

the main reason I set it up with two pumps is for no other reason than having a pump failure, I still have one keeping everything going whilst I source a replacement.

the pumps are sitting on japmat off-cuts only to reduce vibration

the red line is the water level when pumps are shutdown.

next I am going to add an automatic water top up system, which will be sourced from a large drum maybe or even mains, not sure yet, but either way I will need to add an emergency drain which will drain directly outside from the top edge of the sump incase of float valve failure...

P1010499.jpg

HTH

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Stocking levels don't determine size of filter.

Size of tank determines size of filter.

Go back and read upon the basics of fishkeeping before giving advice.

no worries man. I still don't agree though. volume, stocking and filtration are all related.

But this thread is about sumps, so yes your right, I have no advice to give here.

Im sure Shay will get all the advice he/she needs from you guys as you seem to know your sumps inside out thats for sure.

Edited by kasman
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you'll have to excuse me if i dont make much sense as i've had quite a few rums tonight.

I cant believe we're going to debate the basics of fish keeping LoL

basically they are all related, but putting it simply you can under filter a tank, but your cant over filter it.

(do not confuse flow rate, for filtering...two totally different concepts)

the FX 5 is a classic example of an under filtered over powered canister. they make great mechanical filters, but not so great biological filters as the water is passed through too quickly for it to be adequately filtered through the biological process.

Filter size, is determined, by tank capacity, stocking levels, desired flow rates, head height, media capacity & desired filter media....and possibly a whole lot more variables.

the more mechanical filte media you have, and varying the grades from course to fine will produce cleaner water as more solid waste is removed. this is where a sump is better than a canister as you can stock more media in there.

with biological media, its a catch 22.

X amount of fish will only produce X amount of waste... this amount of waste will only support X amount of nitrifying bacterias, no more no less.... unless of course the stocking levels change. SO by putting heaps and heaps of biomedia in the sump, can be a bit redundant as only X amount of it will be used...BUT... having more will allow your to slightly overstock your tank.

the other part to this is the TYPE of biomedia used. the more inefficient the biomedia.. the more you'll have to use...therefore the more room you'll need.. hence sumps can accomodate for this. a classic example of this is Bioballs (possible the most inefficient biomedia available).... 1L of seachem Matrix = 170L of bioballs.

also by having a larger than necessary sump, you are also increasing the over all water capacity of your tank, thus allowing you to raise the stocking of your tank slightly.

the last example of why sumps have an advantage over canisters is that they are Modular... they can be easily customed to suit your needs, you can chop and change them when the needs arise, parts or spare pumps are easily sourced and installed, and they provide a great pace to stash all the unsightly equipment, instead of cluttering your display tank with equipment.

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this would be one of the dodgyest statements I have read lately...

Sorry I was maybe a little harsh with that statement, appologies to kasman.

Dodgy? How so, with regards to sumps you need to turn the water volume over x amount of times to correctly filter the water so you need a filter and pumps the correct size to do this.

You can't stick a 200lph filter in a 8x2x2 and hope it will filter sufficiently...

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