dylan1 Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Hi guys, Here's my long winded story of frustration. so I have been setting up a sump for a 6/2/2. The sump is 5/15/15 and sits directly under the tank. It has a 6,000Lph pump for the input to the tank. The tank has two outputs that go down to a spray bar. The 3 hole drilled were 32mm so I'm running 25mm hosing on all of these. The issue I'm having is that, even though I am running a T intersection (which is controlled by a valve) from the pump back to the beginning of the sump and obviously the other back into the tank, the pump is outputting too fast for the compartment and therefore making that sucking noise because is not fully submerged. I spoke to someone about it originally with a different problem: - the two outputs I was using had pvc elbow joints with no holes on the top to stop that gurgling noise so I changed to the T bar joint and ran a pipe up for air flow. That was all well and good but somehow that has slowed the water flow back down to the sump! The hose that I ran up for the air flow has caps on it drilled with 1.5mm holes (I think) and If I put my finger over the hole the flow rate goes back up, but then the gurgling noise comes back.. This sump has been a pain in the ass and I can not wait to have it finished once and for all as I have been chipping away at it for months now. grrr. I'll add some pictures and please let me know if you have any ideas how to fix this... I'm almost at the point of offering to pay someone to come and fix it! hahaha! Thanks in advance for your much needed advice. If there is anything else that you would like to know that you think might impact the situation let me know and I will post it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan1 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) Edited September 6, 2011 by dylan1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan1 Posted September 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) Edited September 6, 2011 by dylan1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad-n-angry Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 if you take the strainer off it may help let more water thru the pipes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 What if you just put a tap on the output of the pump and used the tap to reduce the flow? You probably have to be careful that there is not too much back pressure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIIK Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) Dylan, IMO you pump is way to big, try using a 3000LPH pump with soft clear/black hose for your delivery. Also your spray bars might be restricting the return flow (hence the gurgling in the pipes), I would try using a direct flow aided by a drip tray. There seems to be too many restrictions in that pipe work, especially when using a 6000lph trimmed or not. Edited September 7, 2011 by FIIK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan1 Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Thanks heaps for all your help guys. Firstly just want to say I am not arguing with all these valued points but rebutting with the experience I have with this particular system. I am just putting what I have heard/know out there and am more than happy to be incorrect but the more information I give the easier it is to find the result. I have spent a lot in setting this up so far so I don't want to go and buy anything else unless someone is positive that is the solution. mad-n-angry - It wasn't an issue previously with the elbow joint so I think that would mean it has the capability to maintain that flow rate with the strainers on. The Tech Den - I think that will only reduce the flow though which wasn't an issue previously when I had the elbow joint on the outputs rather than the T's (however that was where the noise issue stemmed from). Also I think I might find that wouldn't be great for the pump. FIIK - Here's the thing though, The outputs aren't gurgling now that I have put the t bars on them to allow for air flow, they were gurgling when I have elbow joints on them. However, now that I have t bar joints the flow down to the spray bar is reduced. The caps that sit on top of the t bar of the output have holes in them and if i cover them the flow rate comes back....but so does the gurgling noise. I could be wrong but I dont imagine the size of the pump should matter because there is a hose that goes back to the front of the sump should there be excess water being pushed up. thanks again guys. Anymore suggestions are greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DISCUS Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Yup , Less flow will fix that. Sorry I didn't see your last post. Larger overflow pipes would also help , but it would be easier to just use a smaller pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan1 Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Yup , Less flow will fix that.Sorry I didn't see your last post. Larger overflow pipes would also help , but it would be easier to just use a smaller pump. So maybe larger holes in the spray bar would work too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procull Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 1/ ditch the spray bar 2/ smaller pump 3/ swap the stainless strainers for polly strainers 4/swap around the media in your sump , bio balls dont work when fully submerged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIIK Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) Why run a pump that is chewing up twice as much power than it needs to with a flow rate that is redundant ?? Less is more. edit: Add appx an inch gap underneath your Jap mat layers, as the mat gets dirtier it will start to restrict flow and your water level in the first chamber will rise slowly. Edited September 7, 2011 by FIIK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussie123 Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 4500 lph pump (or bleed that pump off straight back into the sump) and remove the spray bars and your problem is solved.Too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pony-tail Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Here's the thing though, The outputs aren't gurgling now that I have put the t bars on them to allow for air flow, they were gurgling when I have elbow joints on them. However, now that I have t bar joints the flow down to the spray bar is reduced. The caps that sit on top of the t bar of the output have holes in them and if i cover them the flow rate comes back....but so does the gurgling noise. I could be wrong but I dont imagine the size of the pump should matter because there is a hose that goes back to the front of the sump should there be excess water being pushed up. The reason for this is that without the breathers the pipes are siphoning and pulling more water through . and when you ventilate the caps you break the siphon and it becomes an overflow - resulting in less flow - but killing the gurgling noises . There should still be plenty of flow - you just have to reduce the flow into the tank till the flow in matches the outflow . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syndicate Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 what puzzles me is the fact you didn't research anything before setting up a sump... maybe if you did you would've known that 2 25mm overflows have a maximum flow rate of 4,542.49lph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syndicate Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 and are you pumping the water back to the tank threw a strainer? build a pvc spray bar and use the 3rd hole as a additional overflow to handle the load from the oversized pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Ya too much pump not enough drain. I have 2 x 3500lph pumps unrestricted and at full noise, but have 4 x 40mm drains. Spraybars are a waste of time better off with drip tray IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan1 Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 what puzzles me is the fact you didn't research anything before setting up a sump... maybe if you did you would've known that 2 25mm overflows have a maximum flow rate of 4,542.49lph well dont lend too much of your precious time and thought from your superior brain mate. I'm sure I'll survive without smart ass remarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan1 Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 edit: Add appx an inch gap underneath your Jap mat layers, as the mat gets dirtier it will start to restrict flow and your water level in the first chamber will rise slowly. Yeah thanks FIIK, I was told to do that I jusyt havent got round to it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan1 Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Thanks to everyone that gave me all the advice I needed! The sump is finally up and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 What did you end up doing with it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan1 Posted September 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 removed the stainless steel strainers and cut the bottom part open of the spray bars out. Also just feed more water back to the beginning of the sump. thanks again guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
