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Upon looking around the internet for information on the Apisto 'steel blue' there seems to be alot of discussion around on the apparent hybridization of the 'steel blue' and tracing its origins. As there are some dedicated Apisto breeders on here I thought I would get some peoples opinions on this... In alot of the discussions its also said that there are rarely any females available. This looks to be true as I now have 3 males and no females....

So what do you think.... are they or aren't they hybrids?

I hope they aren't cause I dont like hybrids lol....

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sounds like a hybrid to me

Unfortunately, it is one of the biggest mystery Apistos of all times. The problem is that no one has ever taken credit for discovering this species and no one has ever reported collecting a similar species anywhere in the Amazon. Their markings and characteristics don't match any of the known species groups and the original imports all came from Asia. To top it all off, almost all of the fish that were initially imported were males and the fry that resulted from spawnings of the few females available suffered from a lack of vigor and poor survival.

Apistogramma sp. "Steel Blue"

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its one of those discussions isn't it :lol: no proof for or against its real beginnings. whilst i don't wanna start a debate there are other cichlids including ebjd and marbled fenestratus that have these same "murky" undertones. hybrid or not they have their place and its kinda hard to say you dont like em just because the are hybrid. kinda like saying "i really liked that car........till i saw the blue oval badge" ;)

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A bit off topic well sort off seen bloon or short body (not sure which one to call them )green terrors today, some seriously weird looking fish.

yes its a "deformity" that occurs in a small percentage of nearly all fish spp. in the wild they are picked of by predators so never have the chance to do much. in the hobby some peeps actively sort out these "short bodies" to breed amongst each other to get a larger percentage of deformity. this kinda breeding has its origins in the same sorta countries that gave us colour dyed fish, pierced fish and physically altered fish that have their fins and tail loped off at birth. its hard to take a side either way really in that alot if not all goldfish spp. and some betta,guppy,rams platties etc are all done along the same lines. balloon and short bodied fish occur first in the wild (in very small numbers) and are then bred and reared by humans.

not so much taking sides as lookin at it from "outside the glass box" i guess ;)

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its one of those discussions isn't it :lol: no proof for or against its real beginnings. whilst i don't wanna start a debate there are other cichlids including ebjd and marbled fenestratus that have these same "murky" undertones. hybrid or not they have their place and its kinda hard to say you dont like em just because the are hybrid. kinda like saying "i really liked that car........till i saw the blue oval badge" ;)

Haha I love a good ford joke.

You could also say its like " Having a chevrolet badge on a commodore"

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Funny you should ask DVS as I was there yesterday looking at them and was also asking about females. I just emailed Little Goby this link as I was talking to Donny and he was trying to find out about females too http://dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_steel_blue1.pdf I was alsmost about to buy some but they couldn't confim what a female looked liked so i literally just did some research before then saw this post. Btw they were $10 each!!! HTH

Edited by Shanoz
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From what i've read mate, I think it's more of a lucky dip than anything, I suppose if they were easy to pick like any Apisto no-one would be asking the same things. Seems to be a common discussion all round the world. I was reading someones post in Norway saying that they don't sell females and if they do it's a very rare thing. So yeah who knows, I actually thought they looked alot like a Apisto Borelli Opal or very similar, what do you think? ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

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apparently that is sometimes what they are incorrectly labeled in some shops. but yes It would appear that they are a cross from that one. I dunno, maybe I should put something in for them to breed IF I do happen to have a female. going by those pictures I have a possible 1 female. ill give it a go and see what happens....

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trying to get this straight......

so since Apisto "Blue Steel" are not found in the wild. we assume they were man made.

No no-one has taken credit for it, so we dont know what strain either parent is.

so for arguements sake lets call one A. and the other B.

if someone gets Apisto "A"... and breeds it with Apisto "B"...and the fry become Apisto "blue steel"......... isnt that cross-breeding...not hybrid.

isnt a hybrid somthing like a emu x budgie? (hehe can you imagine those 2 mating.....is it in yet???, little budgie on the emu's back.....take it &itch, take it ! LoL)

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well thats is how I would interepret it simmo... they are the same genus and but different species. where as a flowerhorn is bred from 2 fish that more than likely have both different genus and species names.... so in theory it would be a cross breed and not a hybrid. nice work simmo.

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trying to get this straight......

so since Apisto "Blue Steel" are not found in the wild. we assume they were man made.

No no-one has taken credit for it, so we dont know what strain either parent is.

so for arguements sake lets call one A. and the other B.

if someone gets Apisto "A"... and breeds it with Apisto "B"...and the fry become Apisto "blue steel"......... isnt that cross-breeding...not hybrid.

isnt a hybrid somthing like a emu x budgie? (hehe can you imagine those 2 mating.....is it in yet???, little budgie on the emu's back.....take it &itch, take it ! LoL)

um i think ya have it a lil confused ;) they mean the same thing. hybrid or cross breed is by definition.....one in the same HTH :lol:

hy·brid (hbrd)

n.

1. Genetics The offspring of genetically dissimilar parents or stock, especially the offspring produced by breeding plants or animals of different varieties, species, or races.

2.

a. Something of mixed origin or composition, such as a word whose elements are derived from different languages.

b. Something having two kinds of components that produce the same or similar results, such as a vehicle powered by both an electric motor and an internal combustion engine as sources of power for the drive train.

cross·breed (krôsbrd, krs-)

v. cross·bred (-brd), cross·breed·ing, cross·breeds

v.tr.

To produce (an organism) by the mating of individuals of different breeds, varieties, or species; hybridize.

v.intr.

To mate so as to produce a hybrid; interbreed.

n.

An organism produced by mating of individuals of different varieties or breeds.

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discus , angels, guppies , plattys , bristlenose , albino sailfin gibbys , theirs a few , but their all crossed , doesnt happen with these much in nature but it does from time to time ie 2 red discus caught within 30 to 50 meters of each other 3 years apart , i have the pics pure red , as for africans i went to an ed connings talk , im not into africans but just love fish , after talking to ed for almost an hour , i discovered this , due to low visibility in some of the lakes , fish have crossbred , species that normally kill/eat one another have bred together , ive never been their he has, so il take his word for it , but he said this too , if you dont know what youre doing with genetics leave it alone , theirs allready enough poorly bred stock on the market that should have been culled , but due to greedy pockets , its made its way to shops n to peoples tanks, sad but true , over pop corn had enough on the weekend , so heres to hubba bubba

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waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh ad is only the most pimpin daddy of them all

have u read malawi cichlids in there natural habitat well thats ad

he pretty much is the world expert on malawi cichlids along with a few others but he is the most famous

and fish from different collection points should not be breed together as they often have different colouring and behaviour even though they may be classed as the same fish

these differences may be small but they make the fish almost sub species for one another

as these groups may not have contact with one another they are evolving in different ways and in different directions

in my eyes it is just as bad as breeding two totally dif species together

just my 65.999 cents worth

Edited by a-f-a
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