Sounds Fishy Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 My german blue rams have been laying eggs for a while now but the eggs wouldn't hatch or got eaten, I had one spawn that actually hatched and I left them with the parents unfortunately that didn't work, by morning they were all gone. When they laid their eggs this time I immediately put up a divider to the rest of the tank and kept an eye out for hatching. Today I found wrigglers with the parents, I isolated them into a container floating in the tank and put an airstone in. I have vinegar eels are these ok to feed in the first few days until they are big enough for the bbs? Is there anything else that I should do. Appreciate any advice as I am still feeling my way through fishkeeping. Some pics of the rams and wrigglers. http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/Lyn1961/German%20Blue%20Rams%20Breeding/P1290316.jpg http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/Lyn1961/German%20Blue%20Rams%20Breeding/P1290321.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_Shorty Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Shoot Shaun (ssdiscus on the forum) a PM. He's been breeding these beauties for many years mate, has the best German Blue Rams you'll see anywhere & I'm sure he'd be only too happy to share with you some advice & knowledge. BTW..congrats on the spawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Thanks for the advice, so far they seem to be doing ok. Fingers crossed, will send SSDiscus a PM and make sure I am on the right track. Looking forward to the challenge of trying to rear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted January 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Thought I would update how the fry are going :-) 6 Days old http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/Lyn1961/German%20Blue%20Rams%20Breeding/P1290349.jpg Edited January 8, 2012 by Sounds Fishy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted January 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Day 5 they started swimming in circles around their container. http://s1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/Lyn1961/German%20Blue%20Rams%20Breeding/?action=view¤t=P1290356.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted January 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Day 8 I moved them, split them into two groups and put them into larger tanks as they had outgrown the 4 litre container. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_Shorty Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Looking good SF. Appears they are doing extremely well. Congrats again on the spawn & do keep us updated on their progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted January 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hey Still Shorty I did contact Shaun (SS Discus) and had a chat with him, (a big thankyou Shaun, much appreciated) he was very helpful in regards to feeding the rams and I have done a few firsts with these fry, I made a brine shrimp hatchery and am currently working out the right mix of salt and bicarb soda to water (my hatch rate is I think lower than the 90%), if you notice on one of the pics I have a few unhatched brine shrimp eggs in the tank, that is the next thing I am learning, how to harvest the shrimp without getting all the unhatched eggs. I am enjoying the experience and hope I can make it through the first month (I read that is the hardest period). Will keep posting pics of my progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I forgot to mention that the blue ram fry love vinegar eels! I researched and they seem to have the pretty much the same nutritional value as bbs and I find them easy to maintain and harvest. At the moment I am feeding vinegar eels with bbs every second day. Another plus with the vinegar eels is that they can survive in the fresh water and swim in all levels of the water all day unless they get gobbled up by hungry little fish. I was lucky that I had these on hand to try and it seems to be working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Thought it was time for another update, I have lost a few of the ram fry (I had over 300 wrigglers) I did a rough count this morning and have about 120 left. They are not 3 weeks old and I haven't lost any fry for the past week since I separated out the fry into another tank, I now have 3 tanks with fry in them. I feed them vinegar eels and microworms now and they seem to be thriving on this mix although I am no expert. I was wondering if I could grow out the fry in those flexitubs, they are easy to get hold of, I can put a heater in and sponge and should be easy to clean, I am concerned that plastic gives off a toxic substance when it is warmed and that might affect the fry, any thoughts? Recent pics of the fry: Any advice is appreciated, thanks Lyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFC Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Hi Lyn, Some plastics do contain BPA which has raised concerns when they heat up due to them leaching compound into water and food. I believe plastics stamped with a recycle number of 7 are ones to avoid so maybe check the bottom of the container and see what number is there. If BPA has been banned in the USA and Europe for baby products, then one may assume using this plastic type for fry may cause you some issues if it is exposed to temperatures. I'm certainly no expert on this as I can't even get my eggs to hatch as the parents keep eating them :-) Good luck with them anyway Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Thanks for the heads up Steve, I did some googling once I checked the number under the tub (4 LDPE) which turns out to be low density polyethylene. If the code reads, 1,2,4, or 5 you are safe to use. If the code reads 3,6,7 definitely avoid. I guess I will try it and see how it goes, they are going to need some growing room soon and I am flat out of tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpf66 Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 when ready to sell let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted January 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 4 week update, I am breathing a sigh of relief, managed to get to 4 weeks and no losses over the last two weeks. They are growing and look like little fishes now instead of tails with eyes. Feeding them mainly vinegar eels and microworms without any issues. I think that the first two weeks are the most critical they seemed to harden up after that. Now for some pics at 4 weeks old. These are the parents: Fry at 4 weeks I have put indian almond leaves in the water along with a bit of fontanalis and I add blackwater extract when I do water changes, I thought that might help with their health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFC Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Looks like you have figured out the art of breeding these guys now. Well done. How often are you doing water changes and what percentage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted January 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I am doing water changes every second day and 50% I think I'm lucky that I have tank water, only adding some prime and black water tonic. I haven't lowered my ph either, it is between 7 and 7.2. I moved some of the fry from the smallest tank today and reduced the numbers in the middle size tank, I put them in with the other group in a 2foot x 1.8 foot x 1.8 foot tank and they schooled up with the other fry in there, been watching them through the day and they seem to have settled in well, they are quite interesting to watch when looking for food, they form a line at the bottom of the tank and move forward and pick at what they find, the microworms (I think) congregate on the bottom in an area and the fish go looking for them. Great thing with that is that it is not critical that I feed them dead on a certain time each day, I feed them 3 times a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsnappa Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Could anyone share the parameters and conditions needed to encourage Blue Rams to breed? I have had a proven breeding pair for a bit over 6 months and have had no luck. They are in a 1.5ft tank with a couple of guppies. I have java moss, anubias and some fake plants. PH is around 6.5 to 6.8. Advice to get these beautiful fish to breed would be very much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangles Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I used to Feed mine up on bloodworms then do a good water change 40%.I would use tank water which would be about what your ph is.This usually dropped the temp a couple of degrees(think this spurred them on).Used to lay about once every 3 weeks.But they always ate the fry.I didnt have a spare tank at the time so never really had a go at raising them. Cheers Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Mine share a 4ft tank with 5 discus, I got them June last year and the pretty much started laying not long after, I have flat rocks at either end of the tank, my ph is between 7 and 7.2 and they lay eggs regularly 2 - 3 weeks. I am on tankwater so they have softwater naturally, I put in blackwater tonic and have indian almond leaves in the tank. Rams and Discus are on the same diet, Sera Discus Granules, Live Blackworms, Frozen Discus Food, Algae Wafers and any live mosquito larvae I find outside. I do 30 - 50% water changes twice weekly and the temp is at 29 deg. My rams were juveniles when I got them, they seem to have got more proficient at the egg laying, fertilizing process, they even hatched the wrigglers and herded them, putting them in their mouth and spitting them back into the group (on the batch that I left in) but the fry were gone by morning. The amount of eggs laid has also increased over time. Question to the experts out there, is 1.5 foot tank big enough for a breeding pair of rams, the male gets a bit feisty after the female lays eggs (I think he is worried she will sneak back and eat the eggs) and she will more often than not be at the other end of the 4 foot tank. Just curious if 1.5 foot would be enough distance in that case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsnappa Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I do notice that the male chases the female around a fair bit. He doesn't seem to be defending any particular piece of territory and doesn't do any damage to the female. I have a piece of slate and a piece of tile in the tank but I have never noticed anything laid on them. What should I be looking for? Does the clutch of eggs resemble a clutch of bristlenose eggs for example? Do they stick to the slate/tile or would they just be laid on top. There are also a couple of bristlenose in the tank, perhaps they snaffle the eggs but I doubt it. Food wise I give them frozen bloodworm, brine shrimp, flake food and I throw in the occasional algae wafer that they nibble on. I use tank water also, with water changes almost every week. Perhaps I should do the changes a bit more regularly. Would they prefer a heavily planted tank, planted at one end and open water at the other, or a fairly open tank? Thanks again John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFC Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 That's interesting what you say about the male chasing the female as my pair have never done that. Both parents eat the infertile eggs and guard them (to their best ability). They only seem to eat the eggs when they become over protected or stressed as the pep's annoy them. Either they decide to eat them or the pep's get to them in the long run. If I decide to actually breed these guys I'll remove the eggs from the display tank (which they lay on a flat rock in there) into the other one as I'm not going to remove the parents from their environment. Bigsnappa the eggs looks like sand and change colour when fertile and from what I have found (all though no expert) is that they do stick to the rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Those are nice Rams, would you mind shooting me a PM as to where you got them? Personally I used to remove the female when the job was done - as she was more likely to be an egg thief. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Hey Bigsnappa, here are some pics (yes the fish are out of focus) of the ram eggs and parents doing their thing. The eggs do stick to the rock, and infertile ones will turn a lighter colour, the parents will pick off any infertile ones and yes the female does try and sneak in to eat the eggs hence the male being so protective and chasing her off, the last few times though, he hasn't chased her off and she shares the guarding and fanning of the eggs. Guess with maturity and time she has got her act together. Gingerbeer, I got these off Guppy Guy on the gold coast they are F2 German Blue Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsnappa Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Thanks for that - so the eggs are white pin head sized and scattered across the rock, not clumped together? I haven't noticed anything like that with mine yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Fishy Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 The eggs are a sandy colour and what she does is a line across the surface of the rock with her egg tube against the rock, she will do this repeatedly then stop for a while, the male comes in and goes across the eggs, then she will start laying some more going in a line, she doesn't clump them I think because the male when he goes over the eggs would not be able to fertilise them if they were on top of each other. They are quite methodical about it, and will repeat the process several times until finished. She is laying more eggs these days and a clutch of 300 is not unusual. Blue rams are sensitive to water conditions, it is important to keep the water in pristine condition, I change out twice a week for their tank, you could also try putting in an indian almond leaf, it will put tannin into the water but it also helps to condition the rams, helps to lower the ph and with helps to keep the rams healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
