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virachai

red devil cross jag

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hey there guys i have some red devil jag hybrids jag is female devil is male there about 2 to 3 cm some are smaller i will post some pics tomorrow the pair keep breeding have has anyone ever seen this combination befor ? there shaped like a devil but and starting to get jag colors pretty cool

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I saw some on monsterfishkeepers ages ago, they turn out like really ugly jags. Doing things like this is the reason the quality of hybrids in Australia is so low.. No plan, no reason other than the owner wants to play dr Frankenstein. I'm not meaning to sound rude the reason I care is I own some quite expensive flowerhorns and it sux people think they are mongrels because of threads like this. Sorry if this post makes you angry but I would use em as feeders and not let it happen again. JMHO

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I saw some on monsterfishkeepers ages ago, they turn out like really ugly jags. Doing things like this is the reason the quality of hybrids in Australia is so low.. No plan, no reason other than the owner wants to play dr Frankenstein. I'm not meaning to sound rude the reason I care is I own some quite expensive flowerhorns and it sux people think they are mongrels because of threads like this. Sorry if this post makes you angry but I would use em as feeders and not let it happen again. JMHO

People dont get it that no more RD or JAGS are coming to Australia so we must keep what we have pure or loose them forever

FJ

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Well yeah just found this pic and goin off it the best thing for them is to be fed off.

Cross01.jpg

But realistically anyone who compares some one crossing 2 random cichlids to line breeding Flowerhorn's is just misinformed probably or as I've said before some people are just idiots and some just plain don't like hybrids no matter how awesome they look, No matter what you say or do people will always look down at FH's but I can say that most people that have ever come to my house stand there looking at my FH's more than anything else I own and say I've been thinkin bout getting one of these. So I reckon most people do like them, just don't wanna be flamed for it.

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A lot of sence spoken above !

Tuffyrana said it best on a different thread that

He had no problem with linebreeding

But that was totally different to X breeding

I have a 10 foot tank with about 18/20 large

Americans including 4 RD 2M 2F and a pair

of Jags all breed in the tank along with the

others but not once has any fish X bred

with another fish

What I'm saying and pls post what you think

as we all can have our opinion is given a

choice IE M+F fish will breed with there own

and not X unless there's no choice or mate

FJ

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Id have to agree with you there Dave, In my 6fter the Salvini girl was getting quite snug with my male Jag, I also have a smaller male Sal in there that I think is coming up into sexual maturity and the female Sal seems to be losing a lot of interest in the Jag and transferring it to the male Sal. So yeah I would say they Xbreed cause that is their only choice.

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I saw some on monsterfishkeepers ages ago, they turn out like really ugly jags. Doing things like this is the reason the quality of hybrids in Australia is so low.. No plan, no reason other than the owner wants to play dr Frankenstein. I'm not meaning to sound rude the reason I care is I own some quite expensive flowerhorns and it sux people think they are mongrels because of threads like this. Sorry if this post makes you angry but I would use em as feeders and not let it happen again. JMHO

well said Matt i totaly agree with you =D

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look, yes hybrids are here to stay and no one i know of is under any illusions as to a different future. as dave pointed out i have said and strongly agree that line breeding is the key factor in hybrid genome. this ? x ? is pure poo. if anyone takes the time to do some serious reading on the nature of hybrid fish ( and yes i know a few of us the read alot on the subject) there is one plan realisation. when you first hybridise 2 pure spp. approx 95% turn out pure poo. now the other 5% will all contain different traits and generally speaking no more then 1-5 individuals will resemble each other. now with that being fact it means each time some crosses 2 pure spp. 95% of what they are selling is for people to buy,feed and then end up saying "wow.....thats real ugly huh?"

anyone that has bred two seperate spp. on here will atest to the fact that i have never purchased any of them. why? i dont wanna buy 20 fish for the 5% chance of getting a keeper and throwing the rest in the compost bin. there are allways threads with people selling first gens and crosses and yada yada yada. now this it what i would do. breed what you want with a plan not to release any till they are what you set out to achieve. the asian market place is the best example of this. lets take say super red texas for an example. say you line breed 10 generations raising 500 fish each time. you keep 5% to line breed each time so 25 fish and cull the other 475. evan after 10 generation you have only raised 250 fish. now for arguments sake say you sold each junk fish off out of each batch for 5 bux. 10 generations of 500 fish at 5 bux each. 25 grand. now at the end of this selling you have smashed your name as a decent breeder of quality cause you flooded the market with some 5000 plus junk fish. yes you made 25k but now no one will deal with you. now on the other hand you did the line breeding and after all was said and done you produced some standout fish that actually looked like the breed you set out to make. a super red texas of standout quality is a fish with a range in price of 1500-3500 dollars australian. so that being said how many did you need to sell to make 25k and keep or cement your reputation? any talk of minimal line breeding and cross breeding of accidents is atleast on my part is met with a grin of "fa real?".

not trying to upset anyone but when people try to enter a market with mongrels......well its both dissapointing and a lil unbelievable on my part. just my opinion and you are all entitled to yours........some edumacation on the subject would be great before any real diologue could be entertained however. i dont profess to know it all but poo has a bad smell and is pretty obvious to most peeps out there.

sounds like a rant and maybe it is. maybe thread pollution too but definately "on topic". take what ya will from it peeps :lol:

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I guess everybody has an opinion on the matter.. And this could go in lots of different directions with varied opinions on different things.

So I think we should narrow it down to a debate on just one thing?

I.e Tuffy I don't think your supposed to put meat in your compost!

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in my opinion if u got a red jag out of it it would look awsome

yeah that would be pretty cool. what about all the others that didnt get a red jag ? all good on the opinion front but a red jag would be rarer then an xanthic jag and they have proved rare :lol: just saying lotsa bad fish to sell and buy to get a possible good one. JMHO.

please no one view my postings as a way to dissuade you from purchasing these fish. if you want something dont let others tell you its wrong. we are not a herd of cattle :lol:

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On the topic of hybrids, a friend of mine has decided to sell my 'culls' for $5ea that i gave to him for FREE via gumtree and the net. zz x malau x kkp - Just letting you all know im not the one selling these nor would i have sold any of them as they are the 95% that are cr@p. They decided to tell me after they sold a number of them and asked me if thats ok - i explained "i wouldnt have sold them as i dont want the bad reputation of selling cr@p, if they turn out to be something ugly and hideous, i cant be held responsible for it".

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for me its less about them being sold but more about the way they are sold. no one has the same taste in fish so a fh i think is poo could be desirable for someone else and thats cool. what i dont like is the promise of something special when the great majority are feeders. if i sold a batch of flowerhorn off at $1.00 each at 4cm and 95 in a 100 turned out poo i doubt the buyers would care. if i sold them as "great genes.....potenial kok.......double script parents" etc....... at say 35 bux each and they turned out poo......i think some peeps may get a lil pissed. its all relative and sometimes fh are deemed a license to print money with a bunch of bullpoo thrown on top ;) i think a few of us know breeders that promised and talked up fish and then......................... hmmmmmmmmmm

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