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LPG gas heating in sump, so simple but will it work?

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It's so simple it can't be true so I really want to get another opinion on this system that I have dreamt up. I have been looking into solar systems but aren't really practical for heating cause obviously you don't loose much heat when the suns out. So on to LPG. Will this work?

lpgwaterdia.png

now the Instant hot water boiler is a low pressure unit and I don't know if I understand it properly but it runs on / below 12ltr p/min has inbuilt temp control (with LCD) to set at perfect levels and from what I gather an inbuilt turbine to run the display and ignition source.

what I'm guessing is that If I run water through it constantly or on a set timer VIA a pump at least 720ltr p/h (as long as it can pump the height of the unit) it should measure and adjust according.

the stats of the unit are as follows:

* Stainless Steel Panel

* Low Water Pressure Starting. Fire & Water Separate Regulation

* Over Water Pressure Protection Device

* Anti Dry-burning Protection device

* Over heat Protection & Anti Frozen device

* 20-Minute Timer Is Optional

Exhaust Way - Open Flue Type & Force Exhaust Type

Ignition Mode - Automatic electrical pulse ignition.

Use Gas Type - Liquefied Petroleum Gas(LPG)

Rated Gas Pressure(Pa) - LPG:2800Pa

Energy efficiency - 84%-87%

Suitable Water Pressure(Mpa) - 0.02~~0.8Mpa

Heating Status - Heating time <=15 Seconds; Over Temperature <=2c; Stability Time:<=15 Seconds

Connection Pipe Specs - Water Inlet: G1/2" Pipe; Water Outlet: G1/2" Pipe; Gas Inlet:G1/2" Pipe;

Rated Heat Input Power(KW) - 24KW

Rated Water Output(T=25c)L/Min - 12L

Product Dimension(MM) - 620×340×180

Packing Carton Dimenision(MM) - 750×390×240

The only thing is the rated water output - (T=25c)L/Min - 12L which I gather is 12ltr p/h @ a max temp of 25c so will I have to lower the flow to achieve a higher temp?

secondly cause the unit isn't designed for this type of application will the unit be constantly burning while the water is pumped through or will it only burn when the temp is down?

And how bad is burning copper when it comes to adding minerals into the water?

any way here is a link to the actual product

Wholesale 12L GAS TANKLESS INSTANT HOT WATER HEATER LPG STAINLESS, GOOD QUALITY

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I have just found out that the water heated is not drinkable? That means I can't use it for my fish right? they didn't give me a reason but hopefully a plumber could tell me. I'm guessing it's got something to do with heating copper? any one got any ideas?

How much does stainless steel piping cost these days?

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I know of some big fish farms that use gas to heat the system but they have a radiator(a modified one not a standart) in the water(sump). bit more complicated and expensive but depending on the size of your system yus should save the $ back in no time.

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I have just found out that the water heated is not drinkable?

so with this setup the problem is the water from the tank itself passing through the pipework, ie the water the fish swim in

if so, and to eliminate the direct contact of tank water to pipework, have two sumps....one within the other.....a tank within a tank

have your sump sitting within another larger tank with the water in the larger tank being circulated through the heating system and the heat being transferred via indirect contact to the aquarium water through the sumps glass...

eg if you had a bathtub full of hot water and you sat a cup of cold water in the bathtub it would eventually heat equal to the temp of the bathtub....

yaknowhatImean?

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i'd suggest they say its not drinkable as residual warm water sitting in the system (i.e. when water is not flowing through it) may promote bacterial growth - not because of the copper piping itself.

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thats about right. bacteria (most forms) grow well in water 20-45 degrees and dont really start to become disinfected till 80 degrees plus. thats why its not drinkable ;) a uv sterilizer would help to a large degree

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So what you are trying to say is it's not a matter of copper deposit into the water but just a matter of bacteria growing in the water? Cause I would imagine if the return pipe isn't submerged in the sump it should back flow and drain completely when switched off. Don't know what type of effect this might have on the unit though

I know what you mean with the tank in side of the tank system to warm the water. Unfortunately my Sump has a full cartridge of media that I'm not looking to modify any time soon, mainly cause of the size of it. Put I do have a 13W UV sterilizer built in to a POND one 15000ltr canister that I use as final stage water polisher.

See my system here : http://www.qldaf.com/forums/product-diy-technical-discussion-11/ibc-fishroom-w-windows-n-pics-62158/

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what about using the HWS as a closed system, with the heated water going thru coils of pipe in the sump? it would require less energy (which means it will use less energy) to keep the water at a constant temp rather than constantly heating,

or what about a heat pump system like they are now using for storage HWS systems, which uses less power than tradional ways of heating water.

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To make a closed HWS using a radiator of some sort could be tricky and dangerous. A pressure relief valve would need to be added, then you would loose some water and need to keep topping up. I don't want to find out what happens when there is an air bubble in the line. this is why they use oil in the old school radiators, doesn't expand too much. The tank in tank system that Ash was talking about is the closest to a radiator / closed system I would do safely

I don't plan on running it constantly hence would set it on a timer, prob. only in the nights for half hour on / half hour off since my system retains decent temps for a long time. If I can find a solar water controller that I could manipulate to set for the pump as a trigger I will integrate this into the system. (but first I need to learn more about them, I think I could just use one that has a slave HWS auxilary.

Explain to me this heat pump system you speak of.

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A pressure relief valve would need to be added,

Explain to me this heat pump system you speak of.

Umm pretty sure every HWS system i have worked on has had one, pretty sure to meet AUST standards they have to be fitted with one,

And the heat pump system, u know those new hws systems the ones with the little pump on top, they use refigeration principles to heat the water not cool like an AC

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CAV are you a plumber? Could you please look at this product and let me know what you think? Wholesale 12L GAS TANKLESS INSTANT HOT WATER HEATER LPG STAINLESS, GOOD QUALITY

They also have an 8Ltr model and if you could look at that one too and give an opinion too I would realy appreciate it.

And if you where to make a radiator for the heater what metal would you use to construct one? and would I have to top it up or anything like that... I'm only guessing and trying to do as much research on the idea.

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No, im a sparky, i dont play with other peoples ****... so i dont really know a great deal about the gas instant HWS, but the electric instant hotwater ones i know pretty well

personally i'd use a Storage style HWS if i was going the radiator style way as it will consume less power keeping the water maintained at a certain heat, rather than constantly heating, this in the long run will save money.

As for tubing for the radiator coils - HDPE or PEX (polyethylene) or a similar plastic would probably be suitable for the job rather than using a metal which may kill your fish/shrimp, if you where going to use a metal, copper would be the best option.

edit - heres a wiki link for heat pumps too, explains them better than i can

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump

Edited by __CAV__

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One of the biggest problems with this set up would be that it is illegal to have one of these gas systems inside your house unless it is vented and enclosed. Have just had my rental property upgraded because the gas hot water was in a room out the back. Even tho it was a sperate room the system wasnt vented and had to be moved outside onto a wall, Apparently it has something to do with the explosive nature of the sysetms if the leak gas and the output of fumes from the large amount of gas being burnt. I have seen a large tank water tank insulated to retain heat connected to one of those roof solar systems, he had it circulate all day and the had a pump to transfer it to his fish system inside at night. it was set up as a radiator system in his sump with stainless steel pipes in the sump circulating water pumped in from the tank. kept his 10000L at perfect temp all year round.

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