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steve6610

need some advice on keeping L's together

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after the talk about l's crossing i thought i'd ask a question,

i have 3 x 066 with 6 x 202, i'm sure these won't cross, and can't at the moment as they are not adults, also got 6 albino lf bn with them,

should i seperate them as they have a different diet, i'm feeding them algea waffers and shrimp pellets, plus some zuccuni, also have plenty of wood for them,

i'll be moving the bn soon as they are looking to breed but the 202s have the logs taken up, also the 066 are half the size as the 202 and 1/3 the size of the bn,

they have been together for at least 6 months now, just in a bottom tank chilling and growing,

look forward to hearing others opinions and advice...........

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yes so that answered my question about if they can........... but mine are way to young to breed anyway, i didn't post this question to get somebody coming on here to point out what i should read and what i shouldn't read, i was after others opinions and advice, thanks for yours................

so i'm guessing my bn will also cross with my L's, and i guess i will have to remove my bn from my geo tanks,

anything will inter breed givn suitable conditions

also i was asking about L's and bn, not discus and parrots,

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Steve I do believe that the post made by back to basics was making the point that L's have been known to interbreed however IMO I have found that it not across the board of inter breeding it is more specific to certain strains of L's and other varietys of fish like the example of the blood parrots as fish tend to interbreed with close relatives and not broad spectrum of fish.

Hope this helps

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The biggest problem you have is that you have three different feeders. Predominately vegiterian, omnivore and carnivore.

The smaller of the bunch being the carnivore would more than likely get shoveled off their food they will eat whats left which will do nothing for the growth, colour and also health so just on the point of food and feeding you have the recipe for disaster. Now if the BN eats too much protein well bloat would be expected. You have a higher likelihood of death from feeding than that of crossing and you can not rule out crossing.

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Your L066 and L202 belong to two different genera, but are somewhat simialr, so, although technically possible, it is unlikely (but not impossible) they would/could interbreed.

The L066 and L333 are from the same genera and are also very similar - so no surprises there.

Some thoughts (just thinking out aloud..) Some fish species can interbreed and have viable offspring, often these are cichlids with high fecundity (lots of eggs) which increase the chance of having viable young. In the case of L's, their rather low fecundity may reduce the risk of hybridisation (again, depending on which species you are crossing - intentionally or unintentionally). Instances of hybridiation between fish species would probably be higher in aquaria du eto 'lack of choice' in partners - the fish would overlook slight differences in behaviour, colouration, shape etc which would be normal queues for spawning as the 'need' to spawn would overide the natural selection process somewhat.

Sure different species can interbreed (a person can shag a sheep etc), but whether you have viable offspring and whether they can reproduce is another matter.

If you are just growing them out - there's no problem. I have 2 types of Hypans (not 066 and 333 though!) and 2 types of panaques growing out together in a big tank - now they are maturing they have their own tank and making babies with their own kind....

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yes that helps johno, i've been into breeding reptiles long enough to know that certain types will and do cross, BUT also know that a broad comment like was made that everything can cross is wrong, and i've been reading about the 333 and 066 crossing so was wanting more info,

my post was asking about 2 types of L's and i was looking at getting others opinions, not some rant about everything crossing, and bla bla bla,

thanks tech, thats the other part of my question answered, :) thats my real concern, more then them crossing as the l's are to young to breed,

i noticed the 066 were lots smaller then the 202, and that the bn were bigger again, i will now look into moving them into seperate tanks,

and over the 6 months, the only loss was 1 bn gone missing,

thanks for the advice...........

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L066 are hypancistrus and while they young should be fine with the veg and Hikari algae wafer dieting. Not ideal, but they will do ok.

L202 are peckoltia, a different genus and they will also do fine with the veg and Hikari algae wafers.

Just go easy on the shrimp pellets as the ancistrus bns will annihalate the meatier stuff, possibly to their detriment.

Hikari algae wafers are reasonably meaty in content but not so bad that bristlenoses will bloat.

It is unlikely any of them will crossbreed.

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thanks brengun, :) they only get the shrimp pellets once a week, twice at the most,

they also get spiralina flake

(can't spell tonight) well most nights, lol,

i will seperate them soon as i will have more tanks ready soon,

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If your size of them is pretty accurate there are problems. Can be easily fixed. I did kind of expect the size that you mentioned based upon there current diet and sharing with larger catties.

So lets look at the facts and the results.

These fry I supplied to you were about 3cm and roughly 8-12 weeks old.

You got these at the end of June 2011

In about 10 months they have grown about 1-2cm.

The fish are about 12 months old now and when fully grown will reach about 15-16cm.

L066 belong to the Genus Hypancistrus.

Hypancistrus have a mouth with teeth.

Although while young they will take greener type foods, I have found that if you provide a more greener type diet their growth will suffer. From what you have said their current diet is about 85% vegetable and 15% carnivore and that is if the other fish do not get to the meaty food and leave bits and pieces.

I would highly recommend reversing this and give them a diet of at least 80% carnivore with out going too overboard on the high protein type foods.

You will notice they will grow far better on this type diet.

So foods like Vioforma, Carnivore Pellets, Mysis Shrimp, Bryne, Daphnia just to name a couple. Mine also do not mind the Sera Flora for the odd Veg feed side. They are not really Algae type eaters and you can tell from their mouth in comparison to something that does eat the Algae like BN's and their rasping. If they liked Algae you would notice them grazing up and down the glass similar to BN's.

Although they will eat Spirilina and Algae waffers they will thrive on a more carnivorous diet.

Feeding a diet like this will not be good for the old BN's if they get stuck into the L066 tucker, so by separating you will do both fish a favor and get a far better growth than what you currently have.

If you do get the opportunity and have the interest there are some really good books. Personally I like the Back to Nature Guide to L-Numbers but I find the information on L066 in Hypancistrus sp. (L066) • Loricariidae • Cat-eLog • PlanetCatfish more accurate.

In a side note if you do choose to go the dietary way I mentioned do gradual change to the food as their bodies will be more use to the veg. The Veg just does not give the sustenance they need for good growth.

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thanks john, i will be seperating them asap, we are setting up a couple 6ft racks, going to be holding about 22 x 2ft tanks and a couple 4fts, these will mainly be for bn breeding and raising some fry, but that will free up a couple 3ft and 4ft tanks on our other set of racks, we have been cutting back on a lot of different fish so we can get our bn sorted and breeding, plus a couple pairs of americans,

my biggest mistake was thinking i could grow up some different bn and L's together, at no time were we going to breed them in the same tanks,

thanks heaps for the info, not only for me, but i'm sure there are lots of others that will read this thread and change how they have their fish,

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