Yodapwnsasmurf Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hey all my fishie friends, What I am wanting to discuss, is the black tail gene. I have been wondering about this for ages, after I first noticed it in a members tank with a Geo. So, it's where the tail or back half of the body is fully black, I have seen it on a range of different cichlids, but it mostly seems to be Flowerhorns and split gene/electric blue Jack Dempseys. It seems to effect hybrid and genetically weak fish more. So, I originally though, it must be a cichlid only thing, like, I had never seen another fish with it, but loads of cichlids with it, it's obviously a very common thing. Now, today, I was at the beach and I saw a Mullet swimming very slowly, it had the whole back end of its body black, so, now I see that it could happen to any fish. I have had a few Flowerhorn fry with it and I have a Marbled Fenestratus with it growing up at the moment. I found a thread on the black tail gene on a Jack Dempsey forum, they were trying to breed a JD with the gene with a regular JD to get a few fry with the black tail, from what I remember (Read the thread a while back), they had no luck passing it on, but I could be wrong. So, does anyone have anything to add to this, like, pics or information, because it interests me a huge amount! Thanks, and here are some pics/vids to check out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah1234 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 That's very interesting! Especially with the jacks. I remember getting some black tail ebjd bubs but from memory none made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayPee Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Yes interesting indeed. I have a maingano which is totally coloured up on the front half and back half is totally black and i mean jet black. Looks like its been dipped in paint. Didn't seem to affect it so never asjed questions. I don't use her for breeding though. Will try to get a pic. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodapwnsasmurf Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Do, it'd be great to see! I'm sure most breeders or people who see a lot of fish will have seen it, I myself have seen it in real life at least thrice. I think quite a few EBJD babies have it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hi have found it happens regulary in gold fish mainly comets but allways sems to grow out in time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodapwnsasmurf Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) This guy looks pretty big and the Mullet I saw today was pretty big too, so it obviously stays until full size on some species... Edited May 8, 2012 by Yodapwnsasmurf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayPee Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Well in the fish room today. Moving things around i decided to catch her out for a photo' Best i could do couldnt get a in tank shot due to postioning of the tanks. She looks like shes been dipped in black paint. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott95 Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 it would be cool if the gene responsible could be isolated so we could breed entirely black fish, a jet black dempsey would be cool in a tank with white play sand and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodapwnsasmurf Posted May 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 C'mon, how many Biologists and/or Geneticists do we have up in here?! Someone ease my pain of the unknown! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Can't ease your pain... but I can give you a black tailed FH fry if you can get here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodapwnsasmurf Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 How big is it man, I'd love to come get it next time I'm up! I have spoken to my school Biology teacher who is also a Geneticist and she seems to think it could be something to do with the water parameters.. like, it's environmental rather than genetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 2 or 3cm. I have two but I wanna keep one for my own curiosity.... Your welcome to grab him/her whenever your next in Brisvegas... u have my number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodapwnsasmurf Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Sweet, I'll PM ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatic Paradise Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 I remember reading that fish can have black tails and sometimes half their bodies are black, due to pinched nerves (I think it was something like nerves, but I'm currently in hospital and my head is not working properly). This could explain why it's more common in highly inbred fish and cross breeds, also would explain why it it does not transfer to offspring. The black colouration in Carassius auratus auratus (Goldfish) is genetic, they normally start black and turn gold, but they can change through black, gold, red, white and back again as they age. So I would guess this is different to what you are seeing in the cichlids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Pretty certain I have seen a mullet with this as well... although that was caused by some sort of bacterial/fungal infection as it was half dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereFishieFishie Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 I am sure Malcolm from Wetpetz fame had a theory on this when I asked him cause I had come across a black tailed fish. Couldn't remember his answer if it was just a genetic deformity. Hmmmm, I could try to look through some papers(online) when I am at the gfs next & see if they know anything. Pity I have dropped contact with Winston. He might of known too. Frenchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mines bigger Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 http://video.ak.fbcdn.net/cfs-ak-snc6/v/593726/874/241986455901674_33238.mp4?oh=adf3b02eabcf4bd62a3eed1cf734f7f4&oe=4FBCB320&__gda__=1337766688_2e66843a739ca1e8a9df83049dbdbcc9 Not sure if the link will work but its a completely black fronts with a clear tail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereFishieFishie Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 ^thats a weird lil fishie Frenchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobiwon Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) I agree with aquatic paradise i have read that fish can get pinched nerves that cause black colouration also there is a disease which Where the fishes body cant control the melonan inthe fish and u get black areas . I read this in the handbook of fish diseases i think its old u can still buy it. Its blue But alot of other things can cause black colouration of cichlids hybrids, line breeding if done too much, Edited May 23, 2012 by tobiwon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunvest Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 It took many trial to come to what hobbyist wants or the taits will not be the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunvest Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 The male is in the pvc showing the black tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sclero p Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Rarely venture into the cichlid section but the thread title caught my eye. HTH simplified somewhat but plenty of google fodder for you. Chromophore the part of a molecule responsible for its colour. Chromatophores the pigment-containing and light -reflecting cells found in fish. Chromatophore subclasses/colours : Xanthophores = yellow Erythrophores = red Cyanophores = blue Leucophores = white Melanophores = black Iridophores = no colour but reflective/iridescent Normally all chromatophores contain pigment or reflecting structures which make up the colour morphology of a given species. This can change due to genetic variation, ie the different colour morphs of the same species evolved in different locations, or genetic mutation ie albinism. If a particular subclass of chromatophore is present in the genes/morphology of a species genetic mutation produces the different colour morphs ie in Barra you get albino, xanthic, leucistic, melanistic, iridocistic or piebald combinations but not cyanistic or erythristic. Your EBJD is a cyanistic mutation, the black tail is melanistic with the cells in the black area containing only melanophores not the normal make up of chromatophores. Edited June 21, 2012 by Sclero p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodapwnsasmurf Posted June 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 And there we have it, an answer to my question!! Next thing to work out is, will it pass down the line, to fry etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy02 Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 This guy looks pretty big and the Mullet I saw today was pretty big too, so it obviously stays until full size on some species... now that flowerhorn looks sweet as. would pay big money for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunvest Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Rarely venture into the cichlid section but the thread title caught my eye.HTH simplified somewhat but plenty of google fodder for you. Chromophore the part of a molecule responsible for its colour. Chromatophores the pigment-containing and light -reflecting cells found in fish. Chromatophore subclasses/colours : Xanthophores = yellow Erythrophores = red Cyanophores = blue Leucophores = white Melanophores = black Iridophores = no colour but reflective/iridescent Normally all chromatophores contain pigment or reflecting structures which make up the colour morphology of a given species. This can change due to genetic variation, ie the different colour morphs of the same species evolved in different locations, or genetic mutation ie albinism. If a particular subclass of chromatophore is present in the genes/morphology of a species genetic mutation produces the different colour morphs ie in Barra you get albino, xanthic, leucistic, melanistic, iridocistic or piebald combinations but not cyanistic or erythristic. Your EBJD is a cyanistic mutation, the black tail is melananistic with the cells in the black area containing only melanophores not the normal make up of chromatophores. Wish I understand all the terms but 'How to have the constant black tail' in all the off spring. and why even among its very own batch when none BT were found.From what I gather in line breeding causes the fish to deform.Before I forget thanks for the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
