beencees Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 All the fuss and accusations made here recently about L333/66's has got me wondering. It is my understanding that all the fish being sold here in Aus. as L144's are in fact not L144's at all but another form based on Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus that are generically referred to as L144's That being the case does this mean that anyone trying to sell these fish or their offspring should be censured or baned from the site for selling under false pretenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6610 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 ummm not sure how you work that out, L144 is still a Ancistrus sp or a bristlenose, have a look here....... Ancistrus sp. (4) • Loricariidae • Cat-eLog • PlanetCatfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) ummm not sure how you work that out, L144 is still a Ancistrus sp or a bristlenose, have a look here....... Ancistrus sp. (4) • Loricariidae • Cat-eLog • PlanetCatfish No denying it is Ancistrus but so are many other fish, we don't call them all the same thing though do we The link you attached says "Generally sold as Ancistrus sp. L144. It has been found that this ID is incorrect, and the true L144 is a different species - see that species for details" ?? Edited May 8, 2012 by beencees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6610 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 so your saying the L144 isn't a black/blue eyed lemon/yellow bristlenose? can you post a link to info/photos of a real L144? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Sure. Here ya go Ancistrus sp. (L144) • Loricariidae • Cat-eLog • PlanetCatfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relle Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Wow all breed from a single imported male. That's an impressive fish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Yeah too right. He must of been a busy boy hey? Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6610 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 hahaha yeh thanks for that, i did see that pic, so what are the ones here then? just a yellow bn with black/blue eyes, or a hybrid form of the L144, ? i don't own any of these, but would love some soon, but i do know they seem to breed true, i'll be interested in seeing what the other members say about this as i'm just a learner as far as L's go, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Wellll, according to Planet catfish it would seem that what we have here are the Ancistrus sp. (4) As you say, they do breed true and as it happens i do have some of these fish (lovely little fellows), but it still seems that they are all incorrectly labelled if one wants to be pedantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I also had some people on Pleco Planet identify my L333 hybrids as pure so sorry, not good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 red bushynose sp4 ? under for sale plecoplanet , america Sorry, not sure of the relavence of this. The fish you mention is not an L144 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 and the price wasnt cheap either No, it never is, is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Just a bit of a update with what Les was earlier he mentioned them being 1.5cm coming out of the log, I think he will confirm they are closer to 4-5mm when they come out of the log. The SP(4) in my opinion relates to the standard bristlenose with blue eyes. These will spawn larger fry with the L144 fry significantly smaller to the point where Les has had them go though strainers they are that small and if the ones he had belonged to the SP(4) this would not be the case. I can not speak for all as I do not have the information for all but this is my general take on them. As to ID if something is pure this will become more obvious not only with age but more importantly with breeding and reproduction. Although a fish may look the goods it may become more obvious with the fry that they provide. I hope yours are good Beencees. The proof will take time to totally confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 the relevance being the eyes , and colouration , very similar to a 144, imo Sure, they are similar.....but are different fish so kinda proving my point really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 i will be selling both types shortly , in the next few weeks at a price anyone can afford them , i have a very , very large amount of them , i will get the techden to post photos of the parents as i have many pairs and they ALL breed true, same fish as 144 catelog on planetcatfish , NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, THATS MY OPINION , will post photos of parents and juvies pre sale to let u see and post 144 photos from catelog to confirm the photos will speak for themselves Err, ok. Not sure why you're yelling Les, this thread is not about you and in no way do your comments here go to answer my original question which still stands. However, being that you're so confident about your fish then i can only assume that you can trace their bloodlines back to a legitimate (and apparently very rare) L144 which is fantastic. Of course if you can't do that then your assumptions are simply your own opinion and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blade87 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Being line bred for such a long time they should breed tru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Correct... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, THATS MY OPINION , Using caps online are regarded as yelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) I think there are a couple of points here. Trying to do a "Heritage" on a fish is extremely hard especially here in Australia as some point or another it has come from overseas and also the collection point. In most cases you will hit dead end. The other option and to use a adage "if it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck then it is probably a duck" but you need to take it a step further in that it needs to lay an egg and have a duckling. As to scientifically prove that it is a L144 - well that is difficult as that is why it is a L-Number as it has not been scientifically found to begin with so you can not compare. The best we can do is look at the attributes and the breeding and the results of the breeding in being able to breed true. Although it all originate from a single male steps were put in place so that it would breed to the attributes of the true L144 and line bred in order to do so. To take it a step further if you have a look at Albino's that throw common - they do not breed true. To me they are a cross or have been somewhere along the line and the line has not been fixed to breed true. As for SP(4) Red bushy nose that Les is referring to is what is believed to be the false L144. Being a bristlenose this is where I was putting forward the comment of size when young fry leaving the cave, where the Red Bushy Nose will produce larger fry. False L144, SP(4) vs true L144. If you go to the SP(4) at the bottom of the photo's you will see what resembles a false L144 being described as a Red Bushy Nose. Based upon all the information it would seem that they are L144 and tend to agree with this. Mind you I have been known to be wrong in the past. It is just my opinion. Edited May 9, 2012 by The Tech Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 perhaps in your world just highlighting words as im not the most bestest person on a keyboard , so i go with wat works imo Sorry you're taking it so personally. Just thought you might want to know what is regarded as correct etiquette online. Saves you the trouble of being misunderstood in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thanks for your input Tech, always appreciated. The impression i got from Planet Catfish was that true L144's are very rare and most of what people believe to be L144's are in fact Ancistrus sp. (4) which is different again to Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus (supered bristlenose). I am curious as to what we really do have here in Aus, no doubt both. Your comments about the fry size will no doubt prove very helpful in future. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brengun Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 So why exactly do they have the name "blue" eyed L144 if 99.9% of them all have black eyes? Even the L-catfishes book shows a L144 with a "black" eye. I just spent ages on google looking at photos. I did finally find one with a "blue" eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beencees Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Yeah i know. Strange huh? I guess it's like blue/black hair and on that basis i can see what they mean. Very pretty pic though Bren. Would love to have a couple like that hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Brenda, notice the ring around the eye looks blue. Although the eye looks black it has a blue hue around it. Hence Blue eye. Mine actually look different and do not have the white in dorsal fin nor the tail fin and most of the ones that I have seen overseas and other places do not have the white in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Here is just a couple of quick pics. Not all that flash and only just did them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
