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jabmel

Correct size for selling fish on the forum

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:mad:Hi all

Trading rules state

*QLDAF recommend that fish sold are of a 'saleable size'. Saleable size generally means 4 cm_ (from tip of nose to end of tail) - except of course for smaller fish / dwarf species (<4 cm).

http://www.qldaf.com/forums/qld-live-stock-53/trading-section-guidlines-62965/

but I have noticed fish for sale well under this, even 2 cm, is this a rule, requirment or a throw away line that make people feel good,

personally a fish in not a fish, juvi or other untill it is 3 cm +, healthy able to survive transport and any known defect apparent.

I can't see how fish that don't meet this can be sold :(

(not including small fish ie guppies)

my thoughts

ben

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I have seen a number of adds disregarding this rule as of late. I find it totally unacceptable, not sure if the mods will take any action though.

From my perspective as an experienced breeder, 3-4cm is the absolute minimum. Anything under that is a joke. Undersized fry sold are extremely unlikely to live or may suffer severely from being sold at that age, mislead buyers end up with dead fish. The cheaper prices these undersized fish are sold for can bring down the value of the species/morph being sold and is generally not good for breeders all-round. Defects are undetectable (or very hard to detect) at this size also. Essentially breeders can make a quick buck on undersized, possibly low quality stock.

Not sure if anything would be done though. Perhaps just something for buyers to steer clear of, and for breeders to be aware of.

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*QLDAF recommend that fish sold are of a 'saleable size'. Saleable size generally means 4 cm_ (from tip of nose to end of tail) - except of course for smaller fish / dwarf species (<4 cm).

we have talked about this in admin, this part was added to the rules 4 months ago, but its a recommendation, not a rule, so while QLDAF doesn't fully support the selling of smaller fish, we can't stop this from happening,

sometimes you have to sell fish earlier then normal due to a few reasons, i know personally i have bought and sold fish under 3cm,

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In some scenarios, yes it is acceptable. I'm sure there are many hardy species that can handle being sold at 3cm or slightly under. However, with more fragile species this is a no-no. I reserve my judgement on a case by case basis, depending on the species and circumstances.

I would recommend staying away from smaller fish if possible.

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how i see it is this.

if the circumstances are that if the fish is that of a dwarf species or small species sure.

but then again there are those who try to get a fast buck, lets take this one for example... quite famous

johhny robinson is selling ebjd at 2cm

now we all know ebjd are not the strongest fish genetically, so then you have poeple trying to sell fish that will most likely die as the rate of getting them to survive is small...

if this will be allowed on here then i say there is nothing we can do.

as when i worked in a lfs, you can only recommend but you cannot just say no. similar situation, the moderation team have recommended this.

recommended or not selling undersized fish is wrong.

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ben please remember while i'm a section mod, i'm also a normal member, and i also have the same rights as every other buyer or seller,

i agree with you sarah, some types handle it better then others, but it comes down to the seller and buyer,

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if I want to do the right thing and be under sold and under cut by people on this forum doing the wrong thing, whilst being not discorraged to do so by the Mods, I see this totaly unfare and not in the spirt of QLDAF.

time to start looking for a different Forum, this is a joke, why try and be an honest breeder and build a reputation when anyone can do as they want and be encoraged to do so.

ben the forum is for all members, i'm sorry but we don't pick and choose what the members can sell and we don't set a price,

thats illegal in any business,

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if I want to do the right thing and be under sold and under cut by people on this forum doing the wrong thing, whilst being not discorraged to do so by the Mods, I see this totaly unfare and not in the spirt of QLDAF.

time to start looking for a different Forum, this is a joke, why try and be an honest breeder and build a reputation when anyone can do as they want and be encoraged to do so.

Gunna happen on any forum matey.

Ya see, if we stop it here, these people will just go to another forum and sell there. It won't stop them altogether. All we can do is educate people and recommend against the buying and selling of smaller fish.

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My take on this varies, we have both bought (been given) and sold fish under the recommended size, one lot were given to us to raise so I could learn as I went and the ones we sold were sold to someone who had the tank space and also wanted to raise the fry to a mature size and then onsell. If the seller states the size then the buyer knows what they are buying, it would be worse to agree to buy something you believe to be 4cm and then arrive there to find them to be only 2cm. As to the not knowing the health/deformities of undersized fish I totally agree and have several EBJD's with short or no gill plates and or blind in one eye. They should be culled but that is not something I do, they live happily in one of my displays tank as my little battlers.

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Theres alot of people saying there fish are 3-4cm when a matter of fact they are only 2-3cm and buying certain strains which turn out to be something else when you arrive at the pickup destination. Not wanting to go home empty handed after often driving 20-30 mins one way i take what is on offer as it would cost me more time, money and petrol to go arrange a purchase off someone else.

Now after taking these 2-3cm fish home and loosing a couple each time im fed up with people doing this.

it would be great if there was a ranking system for each profile and every time you make a sale with someone you got to leave feedback on the profile or even rate and feedback to the mods that are updated every 3-6 months so it is impossible for the seller to know who marked them poorly,

i think this would help keep people honest and think twice about selling undersized, wrongly identifying (purposely or not) fish.

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meh

I have sold bulk lots of fry at small sizes to people

and I dont have complaints

those that have lost some I always offer replacements.

I will not however be extending my bulk deals of fry offers to Jabmel

christ cry me a river mate

I mean srsly

you buy small

and you are taking a risk

but you are getting fish for much much cheaper

AND you are going into competition AGAINST THE BREEDER

you dont buy 100 fish and have the seller expect you to keep them all

you are going to grow them up

keep the best maybe

and sell the rest

at a much larger price than you paid for them

I am cool with that

selling fish has been a cool career for me

and I would never begrudge someone the pleasure of buying low and selling high

BUT people who add drama to a deal

are fit only for a blacklist.

why do it?

is it jealousy or something?

If I have missunderstood your post, then I apologise

if not

then I hope you take my words in the way they are intended.

I produce a lot of fish

you want adults

they usually start at $50 each

you want month old fry?

they are often $1 each

even beginers can usually turn 50 juvies @ 1cm

into more than 1 adult @ 15cm

heck most manage at least 40 out of 50

I fail to see the problem

its not as if the risk is hidden

the potential payoff though is soley that of the buyer

they can make a decent amount of cash and get the pick of the litter.

at worst they lose the fry

and will not buy small again

and will instead pay for the effort it takes to get them to larger size.

just because theres risk

does not mean there has to be tears tho

I mean go cry at people playing pokies or something

it would have more meaning.

1340604162517.jpg

Edited by DeadFishFloating
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why not sell them small?

are people incapable of aclimatizing small fish all of a sudden?

use a drip stage

and into a matured (not just cycled) tank

I would buy 10 eggs with tails zebra plecs for the price of 1 adult

and I would likely get half of them to adulthood

maybe I wouldnt

maybe I would lose them all

but the gamble is worth it

I once again fail to see the problem.

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if you want a "recommendation" changed to a "rule" by allmeans take it up with the right people rather then go into a public space where the only thing that seems important is your own opinion. the forum is opinion based and therefor opinions will differ. if you are not happy there are other ways to make your opinion heard that will likely receive a better response then this one. only my opinion but equally as important as yours i would think

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less talking n more leaving if its such a drama, i have bought plenty of fish that are smaller and as long as they are sold with a size in mind and the buyer is understanding of this i really dont care.

nanny state

my 2 cents,

heard it all before,

if you dont want to buy at that size dont easy as that,,,,,

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ray summed it up. as long as the buyer is aware of size and this is stated in the ad then no worries. Most of the fish I have bought as an example are listed as 4cm then I got get them home and they are 7/8cm. Awesome members on here :)

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I am all for a discussion of this issue, it is a difficult issue. Currently we have a recomendation - should it be a hard rule is a valid discussion.

However it is not valid to name or imply a specific seller.

From a personel perspective I do believe that there is a degree of buyer beware, and that those who constantly sell known quality fish of a good size do get recognised by the general form membership. I also thing there are some valid reasons for smaller fish to be sold.

Please keep this conversation positive and productive folks....

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I'm shlte at guessing sizes and therfore err on the side of exageration ie if I think they're 5 cms, then I sell 'em as being 4 cms. When you've got 500 juvies in a tank and half of 'em are (guessed) as female, then you have to sell 'em as the size of the larger males IMHO. What are you supposed to do with something like festae where the larger ones (assuming them to be males) are 5cms and the smaller (assumed to be females) are only 3.5/4............wait for the smaller ones to get bigger or chase the larger ones round the tank with all the stress to the fish that it entails just so the buyer gets one at 5cms? That's why I say in the odd ad that I have posted, "as they come to the net".

If anyone's had fish from me smaller than stated, then I apologise as I say, I'm shlte at guessing and I certainly ain't gonna fish one out and measure it. I don't sell on size anyway. I sell when I'm sure they're fit and strong enough to travel a distance. A mere look should tell a good fishkeeper that, even if the fish is only 1.5cms.

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you know i read back on this who;e thread and i thought wat a load of dribble im sorry but lordy wanna whinge and ***** about nothing then step right in, i think the old COMMON sense needs to be thought of and put into practice here, i mean if you want to buy u read an add n u reply and if its what you thought then buy, if its not then dont!

easy as that, i mean i bought a motorbike off ebay (well i should say i won a bike on ebay recently) and when i got there it was a dogs breakfast, so i kindly expressed my displeasure of the bike not being what was described and i didnt part with any money, now the buyer was alittle sad by this, but after i pulled out the foto and the description of the add on ebay, it was clear it neither looked like or was in any way the same bike described, now as i said to him, if it was and i new i would have bought it, same as this site, the add in Q was clear in its sale content, there was no hidden agenda it was as described if you dont like it suck it up and leave it ;)

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