loached Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Hey all. Just wondering do I really need to add all the chemicals to my tank water? I am having a hard time trying to get my ph to 7,it is around 8. I have a 4 foot tank with a aqua one 1200 canister that has seachem matrix-aqua one ceramic noodles and seachem purigen bag. I do a partial water change once a fortnight about 40% and I add prime to the new water before going into the tank then some stability then some neutral regulator.. Is this overkill somewhat? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneself Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 No, you dont. Put in a decent piece of wood instead, that oughtta knock the ph way down.What fish are you keeping?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Those sort of products are good to start off with and as you get more and more knowledge it will help you with other ways. Neutral Regulator when I used it I found would only go to about 7.2 and found that it would bounce shortly after and if you go to their web site and look under the FAQS it will explain why so that would be a good point to look to understand why it is doing what it is doing. A good question is why your Ph is up around 8. Do you have coral and what sort of substrate do you currently have?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6610 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 you should use prime or something like that, but not sure about the other 2, x 2 , what fish are you keeping that need 7ph, drift wood will help, peat moss might also help, 8ph seems high for tap water, ours in normally around 7.6, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneself Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Matrix, ceramics Aand I believe purigen all slightly add to PH, don't they? I remember reading something about that a while back.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loached Posted August 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 At the moment there are a few mollies,five I think? Two Gouramis One Thomas eye? Two Columbian red's Three Bristlenose's Substrate is Coff's Harbour There are a few plants there I had driftwood before but since the BN's loved it so much it clogged the filter often Not sure why the ph is at 8? Using tap water from logan,need I say more?? Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frinkie Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I wouldn't bother adjusting your ph, if it comes out of the tap at 8 just leave it as it, stable ph is more important than having it exactly at 7 and constantly adding chemicals which will just result in the ph fluxuating and causing alot more stress to your fish. that being said drop into your local aquarium with a water sample just to make sure your test kit is correct, anything over 8.2 and ammonia gets way nastier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pk333 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I agree with frinkie about not changing your PH. Keep it stable. As for dropping PH. That can be a little complicated, you have to learn about dissolved solids, i.e minerals in the tap water. Adding driftwood won't really help much with water that has a high dissolved mineral content. Nor will adding other chemicals. Easiest way is to dilute tap water and it's dissolved minerals with neutral water such as rain water or RO water. You could add driftwood, peat moss or ketapang leaves to neutral water to acidify it and drop the PH below 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Lets pull apart what you are adding and why a little. Firstly Prime. Prime neutralises the chlorine, and breaks the chlorine/ ammonia bond that exists with cholormides that council uses to treat the water for your health. Without use of this or a similar product your fish will die. A product such as this is essential. Secondly Stability. Stability as I understand it is a mix of bacteria to trigger the cycle from Ammonia to nitrate to nitrite. This is the regular filter cycle that a good biological filter does. I like these sorts of products for aquarium start up, but would not use it once my filter is setup. I would suggest test your ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, take the time to understand the figures. You probably do not need to continue to use this product if your aquarium is established. Thirdly, the use of neutral regulator. Before talking about it, we should examine your mix of fish. You do have mollies, mollies come from hard alkaline waters. You also have tetras and Thomasi that prefer soft acidic water. Your fish are a bit of a mix. neutral regulator is a buffer that is aimed at giving a stable pH around 7.0. However your tank will contain various items that can push pH different directions and fight a buffer. The worse thing about this is you keep adding more and end up with water that contains so much mix that you can create a whole range of problems. If your pH is continuing to bounce back to 8. something is forcing it up. I would check any rocks or other items to see if they are forcing your pH up. A simple check is to put a drop of vinegar on any rocks etc. If you get bubbles, they contain a base that is forcing your pH up. Would I use neutral regulator, no! Not as it is a bad product, but I would work at understanding why your pH is bouncing and deal with that as my first aim. One more point, instead of a 40% twice a week change, I would do a 20% weekly change. Simply to try and get more stable conditions as a starting point to move your water forward. Needless to say there are alternates to the Seachem range of products, but first and foremost, we need to understand why your pH is bouncing. Hope this helps. Steve Edited August 2, 2012 by gingerbeer corrected typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 It would be a good idea to know your tapwater Ph Kh and Gh if possible. Your tap water in Redcliffe should be at 7.6. Something is driving it up to begin with. Its not the prime its not the matrix its not the purigen or the ceramics. My money is on the substrate or rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Question with ph guys. Is 'play sand' a calcium based sand? Just as one of my tanks is sitting a tad higher than I would like. I have 4 or 5 good pieces of wood as well as some IAL but I can't seem to drop it below 7.2 so thinking the sand is the Culprit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loached Posted August 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I live in Kingston not Redcliffe so not exactly sure what ph it should be. Although I would imagine around the 7.6 mark. How do people test their water? With a api test kit or digital tester? I use the test kit with both high and low ph but still seems in the 8 zone. What is KH and GH sorry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 You can get test kits from most shops, we have them available on our web site (just click on the The Tech Den link below and go to test kits). You can use the digital ones but they are a bit more expensive and can need calibration. Kh measures you Carbonate Hardness which will help work out how stable your water is and tendencies to swing eg if you had a Kh of 0 or 1 and Ph Gh measures the softness of your water. Some fish like softer water where others will prefer harder water. This will give you more detail and hope that it is not a overload. GH, KH, and pH for the Advanced Hobbyist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loached Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Thanks very much to everyone who replied.. I had only recently removed my driftwood and completely cleaned my canister filter so I assume it would be off kilter a bit.. I only have a few plants and plastic rocks but will do a full water test this weekend.. On a side note with regards to doing a 20% water change weekly do you gravelvac also? Do people ever clean the hoses and spraybars? Doesn't take these long to look bad... Thanks in advance.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__CAV__ Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Question with ph guys. Is 'play sand' a calcium based sand? Just as one of my tanks is sitting a tad higher than I would like. I have 4 or 5 good pieces of wood as well as some IAL but I can't seem to drop it below 7.2 so thinking the sand is the Culprit some sand is coral based, if it is it will raise your ph. if you want sand that isnt going to raise your ph, river sand is what you want. I dont think coffs harbour sand should not raise your ph (well it hasnt in my tanks), I use Coffs harbour and Straddie (stradbroke island) Fine white sand with no impact to my ph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Question with ph guys. Is 'play sand' a calcium based sand? Just as one of my tanks is sitting a tad higher than I would like. I have 4 or 5 good pieces of wood as well as some IAL but I can't seem to drop it below 7.2 so thinking the sand is the Culprit Just do the vinegar test. It is funny the things that can affect your pH, some black gravels are notorious for raising pH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 What's the vinegar test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 What's the vinegar test? Based on the basis that you have bases and acids, a base raises the pH, like sodium bicarbonate, whereas an acid drops the pH like sodium biphosphate. Or as we know them pH up and pH down. When you mix a base and an acid you get release of CO2, hence the mix bubbles. If you suspect gravel, or a rock is a base, or driving your pH up, add an acid and see if it bubbles. If it bubbles, it is a base and the cause of your problem. The easiest acid to play with is vinegar. So simply put a couple of drops of vinegar on the rock, or gravel, or sand, and if it bubbles, the item is a base and driving your pH up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Well there ya go ya learn something new everyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__CAV__ Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 hydrochloric acid is better for that test too, bit stronger than vinegar. Remember if your using acid to be careful around it, and keep a bucket of water nearby so if you do get some on you, you can wash it off quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFishFloating Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Be curious to see a closer look at that gravel, and also ph test results from your tapwater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Will using ph down on the rock have the same affect? As we don't have any vinegar. Also does the rock have to be dry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Ph down will not be a substitute for vinegar. Just go to the grocery store tomorrow samo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Will all my rocks and a sample of my sand tomorrow and let you guys know. Will be an interesting little experiment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfancygolds Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 very nice looking tank great setup too, how so u keep your sand /substrate clean im using the bags of small pebbles atm but yours is great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
