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goldenswimmers

QLD fish importing does it suck???

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Now I know some people on here have decades of experience with aquarium fish etc...and so this also might rub some people up the wrong way but Im keen to hear thoughts and experiences from some of you ol' timers....

What is the deal with importing?..Is it really a select few(courtesy of accredition with fishos)who run quarantine facilities that dictate the market?...Is QLD stricter with this than other states?...WA are allowed Koi..is it then easier for them to import quality goldfish for example as these guys are regularly kept in the same set ups/farms overseas...?? Like I said this might rub some up the wrong way but I almost avoid asking pet stores to import as I dont have a say in the fish selected and with goldfish it is very crucial....you can pay big bucks and get a dud fish(plus I believe you can be severly overcharged having spoken to breeders farms etc overseas)...now a certain someone also deals with imported fish and respect due for offering this service to general public etc but i have also never had a postitve experience doing this as it seems once you know the people on both ends..the middle man never wants to play ball...I have also dealt with a certain store here in brisbane in regards to importing even going so far as offering my contacts/pricelists etc from overseas only to have the same store capitilize on this(having supplied price lists!!)and expect me to still pay masive mark ups for the fish I introduced them to!!!!...I am not unaware of the costs of importation/quarantine etc..as mentioned having dealt with a certain someone who offers this service...so I expect to pay more...but if I find fish better than previously supplied at a price cheaper than normally payed...by my own research/time etc...I dont expect to pay more than what you usually sell for...or to have the contact stolen and used for self benefit.....ahhhhh the lessons of business its a cold cold world :) and my big whinge is over...finally is it easier in other states having only dealt with this states situation????.....and how do people in the industry feel about the BIG GUYS who currently run this industry as far as importations work...is there really enough competition to keep it fair????.....Its almost like these guys run your fish tank....

Edited by goldenswimmers
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Mmmmm.....

Your attitude shows a lack of understanding in the commercial realities of running a business

There are several ways to import fish

1 Drop the hint a your LFS and hope they follow up with one of their wholesalers

2 Email major wholesalers with your suggestions....

3 Find someone who imports fish.....and ask them to import them for you...

4 Find someone who has a quarantine room and lease some space and import them yourself

5 Set up your own quarantine room and go for it

Each of these solutions has a commercial risk, and cost.....and the progressively give greater control over the outcome and security of supplier information ....at a greater cost

I have used options 1,2 & 3....with varying degrees of success/failure

but I've always been prepared to accept failure as a potential outcome....without looking for the guilty

Sometimes....sh1t happens

Edited by Rod
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fair enough Rod..but 1-3 I covered above..I have dealt with someone who handles importing(using a borrowed quarantine facility).. and using one of the major wholesalers have you tried this Rod..these guys will not give you 5 minutes unless you are a business with a shopfront(even then you will not select your fish..they will let you know whats available..with time maybe you can get a working relationship with a rep and get to select some fish)...and it is a dream to think they would deal with a member from the public(I have tried as well..I also tried with business intentions but a shopfront is paramount)...and points 4 and 5 I have looked into..neither is easy..I have been recommended to a few quarantine rooms by a very experienced goldfish man who I owe a lot of credit too and this is realistically the most viable option..so I agree..number 5 I looked into and for starters you better own your own land and be in a financial posititon to build the facilities..have you also seen what the dept. charges per hour for inspecting/visits???...I am actually not talking about setting up your own quarantine business anyways its about the procedures currently in place and if people feel these adequately serve the aquarium industry..I shared my experiences and didnt share ALL my experiences & I am not using guesswork..its an open discussion on what people think based on there experiences in the past both here and interstate...

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Ive been sprung...:) that was one of my experiences...I even worked with such a person and it didnt matter...Ive pretty much given up on that angle...I think some people are too busy for their own good..no probs for aquabid purchases though I do agree.

Edited by goldenswimmers
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I think you've probably nailed it on the head when you mentioned "building relationships" with wholesalers that already quarantine. Its tough to take when you get knocked back because you don't have a shopfront, but you should remember that the big guys gets tons of calls from people who probably overstate what they can buy and sell. Not only that, times are tough. I've had a marine wholesaler tell me that he has been burned by non-paying customers more in the last 6 months than the decade that he has been in business.

It's also fair to mention that they also have to make relationships with their suppliers to get top notch fish also. One of the wholesalers that we support has just jumped into the marine game and they are finding it tough to get great supply - as they are the new guy on the food chain for their suppliers. Plus we have no idea how the cashflow of our wholesalers is with their suppliers either.

A lot of wholesalers don't have the luxury of hand selecting their own fish as its expensive to fly someone overseas regularly. I know even the very fish knowledgeable owner of a local wholesaler flies out maybe 2-3 times a year. Usually if they have something special, they only get photos from a couple of angles. Then the photos get passed along to the retailers and we just have to take the gamble. Sometimes its great sometimes it isn't. For example I paid top dollar to get in a Canikan that was beautiful in the picture. Got it in and it was beautiful, except for I think is a fault in its tail. Imagine debating what is acceptable in a fish that has yet to be even standardized! When it sells, I am sure it will sell for way under cost, but that is what the gamble is all about.

If it were me, I would actually write up a proposal of what you want (i.e your breeding programme) and how you want to go about it. Professionally of course, with plans and budget. This way the sales and marketing manager on the other end doesn't think you are some guy with a few tanks in his basement and his dad's ABN who thinks he deserves to only pay wholesale (as what most of their non-retail asks would be - hell, most of em don't even accept tank maint guys anymore). They will take you much more seriously if they know what you are doing. Perhaps if you make a deal with them that when you are successfully breeding you will offer them your best babies, you may get your foot in the door. I'm happy to send something like that off to some contacts if you like...

Provided I get some sweet babies of course ;)

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I'm not entirely sure what you mean by differences between qld and the other states in terms of importing fish.

Unless I'm missing something, fish importation is covered federally so there should be no difference.

Some fish like koi, as you have mentioned, are a no-no, regardless of whether you want to bring them in from o/s or nsw.

The attitude of the importers and their willingness to help you may differ - but thats a different question.

Using (assuming they are) happy, helpful importers in NSW, Vic or wherever is fine - you'll just need to pay the $50 to get your box shipped up here after they are released from quarantine down there.

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completely understand Pcity...I know you guys deal with it on a regular basis (as do any aquarium store) so Im sure you know what I mean..and imagine more than a few fish have never met the standard...thats part of my questioning I guess..how do importers affect the market...so even the relationships and personal experience/preference these importers have dictate fish on offer...some like bettas...some like tangs...and yep the trips overseas are crucial...Ive been looking at visiting a few farms personally in thailand as face to face conversation and actually viewing fish on offer says alot more than any email or photo collection...and sets ups these working relationships...I just wonder if there was few more quarantine set ups/importers would this inturn open the market up as in fish availability and maybe even better quality fish...do we have a pretty closed market as it seems to little old me with only a small amount of importers and mainly being run by a few powerhouses(is it due to their facility sizes and a case of big business vs corner store? :))....they seem like the mcdonalds of take away food...what percentage of the wholesale fish supply market is run by these 3 or so powerhouses...just doesnt seem like a lot of options in the reatail enviroment....surely the ultimate angle for a petstore would be to have a quarantine facility that caters for your own store...???? cutting out these wholesalers....???...

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I'm not entirely sure what you mean by differences between qld and the other states in terms of importing fish.

Unless I'm missing something, fish importation is covered federally so there should be no difference.

Some fish like koi, as you have mentioned, are a no-no, regardless of whether you want to bring them in from o/s or nsw.

The attitude of the importers and their willingness to help you may differ - but thats a different question.

Using (assuming they are) happy, helpful importers in NSW, Vic or wherever is fine - you'll just need to pay the $50 to get your box shipped up here after they are released from quarantine down there.

hey mate sorry I mean more in terms of these fish that are allowed in some states whilst others are banned..so the import laws are federal and exactly the same for all species in terms of import but then different states can legally keep fish that are banned for import?....so where do the tiger shovel nose stocks come from in NSW for example....this is a little confusing..sorry to sound dumb buit it seems like a pretty ineffective system...if you can have koi and TSN in NSW then why is that so...are their waterways different..if so then why koi in WA and not QLD...seems more personal agenda rather than enviromental...surely Tassie would be one of the most limited in whats allowed to be kept???.....how does QLD stand in this type of thing..and why are some states allowed more than others...

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hey mate sorry I mean more in terms of these fish that are allowed in some states whilst others are banned..so the import laws are federal and exactly the same for all species in terms of import but then different states can legally keep fish that are banned for import?....so where do the tiger shovel nose stocks come from in NSW for example....this is a little confusing..sorry to sound dumb buit it seems like a pretty ineffective system...if you can have koi and TSN in NSW then why is that so...are their waterways different..if so then why koi in WA and not QLD...seems more personal agenda rather than enviromental...surely Tassie would be one of the most limited in whats allowed to be kept???.....how does QLD stand in this type of thing..and why are some states allowed more than others...

You're getting in to a whole different kettle of fish....

Importing into Australia is one thing and what you are allowed in qld (or any other state) is another - just two different levels of legislation.

You can import a fish that is classed as noxious in Qld into Australia if you go through a state where its legal, but as a hobbyist you wouldn't be able to bring it here (or import it directly here in the first place).

Edited by cram
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yeah I think we are saying the same thing...Im not questioning QLDs laws so to speak more interested in the comparison to other states and why it is the way it is...so I can import a tsn into nsw?...what is the basis to a tsn being safe in NSW but not safe in QLD..this is more what I am questioning...why are some states favoured as places to keep fish because Im really wondering how effective this current system is..and does it come down to simply state politics....

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I think the lack of importers is really just a product of lack of interest and potential market. Its all well and good to set yourself up to import fish, but if nobody is going to buy them then whats the point?

I do agree to a point but no options means no awareness of other avenues....thats why I ask if the big powerhouses are making the market a bit stale with their control of the market...seems a lot of the really nice imprts come from small timers who put in hard work for their contacts etc....I dont think there is a lack of interest..I think its more financial based as I imagine running quarantine facilities is expensive and like the corner store..they cant keep up with woolworths...

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yeah I think we are saying the same thing...Im not questioning QLDs laws so to speak more interested in the comparison to other states and why it is the way it is...so I can import a tsn into nsw?...what is the basis to a tsn being safe in NSW but not safe in QLD..this is more what I am questioning...why are some states favoured as places to keep fish because Im really wondering how effective this current system is..and does it come down to simply state politics....

so thats two things -

1. things you can't keep in qld but can in other states.

2. importing fish into Aus in general.

1 - noxious classification is based on risk assessment of fish and potential impact on qld waterways. and yep, its all down to simple state politics and the 8 little empires that make up Australia. They all have a different take on things and different ways of looing at the risk etc. I won't say any more on this topic here cause it always goes downhill.

regarding your tsn - I don't the specific laws of nsw, but if its on the (federal) allowable import list and is legal to buy/sell/own in nsw (state legislation), then I don't see a problem.

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I do agree to a point but no options means no awareness of other avenues....thats why I ask if the big powerhouses are making the market a bit stale with their control of the market...seems a lot of the really nice imprts come from small timers who put in hard work for their contacts etc....I dont think there is a lack of interest..I think its more financial based as I imagine running quarantine facilities is expensive and like the corner store..they cant keep up with woolworths...

There are options, in fact I have stock incoming through two different importers. On top of that, the cost to me is less than if I had have gone through one of the majors. That shows that the little guys can definately compete with the bigs guys, but there are still very few of us willing to pay the price to get the stock here in the first place.

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I do agree to a point but no options means no awareness of other avenues....thats why I ask if the big powerhouses are making the market a bit stale with their control of the market...seems a lot of the really nice imprts come from small timers who put in hard work for their contacts etc....I dont think there is a lack of interest..I think its more financial based as I imagine running quarantine facilities is expensive and like the corner store..they cant keep up with woolworths...

In the last 12 months that have been changing. You are right, they used to import a narrow range of fish that appealled to the mass market and that they were sure would sell. However with the huge influx of big box chains many retailers have been demanding a point of difference. So some of the big wholesalers started listening. They've started opening up their availibilty lists to the retailer and we can choose what we want from the allowable import lists. We have to pay upfront but it does provide a few more options.

It's up to you guys to speak up on what you want though - and take a gamble also. These fish come at retail prices so it's an investment in the hobby for later :)

Oh and no-way! Already told the bosses there is no way I'm going to be the one bringing back the qt facility! Way too much work :P

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I find it very confusing(im sure its not just me)..but you can own and sell..breed etc...its seems really ummm STUPID if you ask me...you cant fight what is already here by not allowing it into the country...seems like a catch up plan instead of a management plan....and cheers for the link cram...im reading ;)

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I find it very confusing(im sure its not just me)..but you can own and sell..breed etc...

Aaaaaactually, in QLD you CANNOT commercially breed anything that is not on the allowable import list, with the exception of native species. Its a big brick wall in the way of any of us that would want to go legit and do what we do on the books.

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Aaaaaactually, in QLD you CANNOT commercially breed anything that is not on the allowable import list, with the exception of native species. Its a big brick wall in the way of any of us that would want to go legit and do what we do on the books.

can you pls link gov info source for this?

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A few things to consider IMO....

Firstly Sydney is bigger than Brosbane, and at least when I was there, some stores were not depending on big importers for there supply. Additionally some stores have 'interesting' import practices. This leads to some interesting fish turning up in parts of Sydney...... Some of this is not really something to be proud of as a hobby.

Secondly, there are importing stores in Brisbane. They do get some interesting fish.

Third thing I must say, regardless of whether buying from Sydney, or germany, you are replying on someone else picking your fish. This is a big risk. When a LFS has your fish, you can go in and pick the cream of the crop, and leave them with the rubbish..... I love buying of a LFS.... Pity it is not an option for all fish!

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