Karen Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Just a question? So many times I see on here people advertising huge pair of what ever have bred many times and asking huge prices or asking eoi, The truth on many occasions is these fish have bred heaps and are past their use by date and aren't breeding anymore. so the breeder is trying to get rid of them. My question is wouldn't it be fairer to advertise them as display fish instead of breeders or great companions for a display tank? Just my opinion, maybe to help novices that save up and buy these expensive fish, then loose heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martib Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 yeah your right,i prefer to buy a young colony and of unsexed fish and make my own colony,more satisfaction,thats my 2 cents worth. cheers marty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozmo Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I personally have only ever sold a breeding pair of something when there are fry to show and/or go with the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50BAGS Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 That's really sad... People should be more honest when selling fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddo Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Agree 100% just like the mixed blood statements been seeing on so many adds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Junkie Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Sounds like ones talking about Americans and one Africans ? Just don't buy them FJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted December 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Yep I wouldn't buy them and most seasoned breeders wouldn't as they would realise these people are still breeding this species of fish and only unloading whats not of value to them but they would appeal to the newbies that see the seller has lots of posts and is offering great fish. No fish species inparticular Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddo Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I have fallen for this many times bought breeding pairs of fish and havent bred or they have been sterile, even just too old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenswimmers Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 just to keep it fair...some prs dont do as well in new tanks(breaks the chemistry and they are out of an enviroment they felt comfortable in)and some people might not look after the fish as well,feed as well etc....but yep agree that if its past its use by date as a breeder then its a display fish...but as mentioned...you dont have to buy it...and if your really keen to breed anything in my opinion..you get a little group for a properly formed pr...might even get some spare breeding prs or different fish to cross/influenece offspring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raycam01_au Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 i just used to buy fish many of them would get a boy n a girl outta them so i was happy like anything else in life, do sum research, use some common sense, and bham off u go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6610 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Just a question?So many times I see on here people advertising huge pair of what ever have bred many times and asking huge prices or asking eoi, The truth on many occasions is these fish have bred heaps and are past their use by date and aren't breeding anymore. so the breeder is trying to get rid of them. My question is wouldn't it be fairer to advertise them as display fish instead of breeders or great companions for a display tank? Just my opinion, maybe to help novices that save up and buy these expensive fish, then loose heart. or maybe the breeder is just changing what they are breeding, not every breeder is trying to rip of new members, take my orange spot bn, i'm selling ALL my os bn, not because they are old, warn out, just because i'm cutting back on my breeding stock so i can get back into africans, i bought a huge trio of peppermint bn, yes they were old and had breed heaps of times, i paid good money for them, but since i added them to my young colony they haven't stopped breeding, sometimes its better to buy older fish, just depends on what you want to do, its very easy, if you don't want to buy them, don't, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6610 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Agree 100% just like the mixed blood statements been seeing on so many adds. isn't it better then breeding from the same stock over and over, i think it can only be good to at least try to add new blood into your breeding stock, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldrag76 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 i dont see anyone on this forum strong arming anyone to buy anything so what the point of this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted December 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Steve not aiming at anyone or any species and yes you have valid points but you must admit its a reality and Bulldrag where the hell did that come from lol, doesn't fit into the context at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldrag76 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Quite simple karen if it to expensive /to old/dont buy it . Whats your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6610 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Steve not aiming at anyone or any species and yes you have valid points but you must admit its a reality it happens, but it also happens that people sell hybrids or deformed fish or wrongly identified fish, sometimes they know, sometimes they don't, i just think we as buyers need to research and make sure we check out the fish before buying, as a seller i always ask my buyers are they happy, are the fish big enough, and always give them the option to exchange a fish if they want to, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted December 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 If you really don't get the point of the post. pm me and I will do my best to run through it with you. cheers karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azedenkae Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) The thing is sometimes they are still in their prime, and are still producing heaps and heaps of fry - or at least should be. As goldenswimmer mentioned, sometimes being in a new tank turns them from breeding machines to lazy soloists, and could be due to many factors. I personally think this is just something a buyer has to take into consideration when buying something advised as so. 'Should I buy them? Might they do well in my tanks? What if they just happen to be breeding well in the seller's tanks? Or maybe the seller has a secret method that s/he's not saying?' All sorts of questions, and in the end it's up to the buyer to decide to buy 'em or not. And imo that's all there is to it, it's not as if it's a lie - if someone is truly selling a pair that has breed before and is still breeding like crazy, there's every reason that under the right circumstances, they'd continue to do so in their new home. But yes, sometimes it's the move, sometimes it's the water quality, or sometimes they're pass their prime (yet are being sold as great breeders, either out of negligence (the previous owner may not be counting their eggs exactly, or are just estimating for example, or may regard the speed of their breeding as something 'great'), or on purpose (lying about their fish, saying that they're great when they're absolutely not)), whatever the case one is taking a risk when buying them, and so one has to make that decision. And when one makes that decision, well, whatever the outcome they will have to deal with it (unless the seller was lying to them of course, but how can you tell between fish that are just past their prime and fish that are not used to the new water conditions?). Or something. But yes, if you want to buy them, buy them. If you don't, you don't. Sales are sales, and as long as there's no misrepresentation... then it's all good. It's very simple, in my experience. If I like what is presented, and I want to buy 'em, I'll buy them. If I don't, I don't. If there's not enough info and I'm unsure, I ask. Otherwise it's a risk, and it's my own fault if I take that risk, really. Edited December 14, 2012 by Azedenkae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFishFloating Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I am about to split up my breeders and prob sell 2 thirds of them off. Why? because they produce too many fry I just dont have the tank space for them. The thing you should always remember about breeding fish is the importance of BOFFFF's Those of you not from an aquaculture background, BOFFFF's stands for big old fat fecund female fish. They produce the most, and best quality eggs. http://depts.washington.edu/mpanews/MPA89.pdf Coastal Voices: Wanted: Big, Old, Fat, Fecund Females Yea older males are not so important, milt quality decreases pretty fast but at the same time, many BOFFFF's wont breed with smaller males, if they dont impress them. Then again, I dont care if people buy fry or breeders. I dont usually sell breeders, well females anyway. Because to someone selling that species of fry, its like shooting yourself in the foot. But I am small time now, so thats mellowed my view on that. I dont buy old female livebearers, or female cichlids with sunken guts. But otherwise, older is often better as they produce fry better. On the other hand younger ones are better for cuckoo hosts..... as they are naive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I have three fish all about the same age in one tank - one is retired and does not care what passes his cave the next will grab a girl on the odd occasion and then there is Fabio who seems to like a girl in his cave most days. I like the three of them and their girls. There is also the issue with the new kids on the block, where they can not get it right - can not keep the peace, the odd dead one from a fight or just can not look after the kids or there are just not many kids. If you work out why people are selling might help with why to buy. Some like to play games so there is a challenge while others seem easy to read. Sooner or later you will make a mistake, you will learn - that is how fish keepers become old and wise fish keepers..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supercobwe Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) As above mentioned, sometime newbie that could included myself if I'm new to that species doesn't know what they doing brought the fish home and then fish stop breeding, even the experiences breeder would not able to guarantee can get them to breed again straight away because you changed their (fish) environment which will take time to settle down so all depend on the fish and depend on how long does it take them to get to know their new environment (tank). That might explain why some breeding pair take so long to breed again once you brought off the breeder but I don't rule out there are some breeder taken advantage of newbie lack of knowledge and sell fish which they know is not the best. There are plenty of honest breeder on this forum but in the same time some are not so good so use your common sense I guess but you will learn from your mistake and gain good knowledge along the way. Edited December 14, 2012 by Supercobwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddo Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Steve unless the fish are imported you got about as much chance of getting different blood as hell freezing over in many species. I understand too that some beeders are either getting out of fish or changing species. But many breeders will pass on old fish just to get rid of them. But hey it is up to the buyer to part with the cash. I myself always buy young fish and yes I do buy from different sources in the hope of getting some different blood but Iam realistic about it just cause I buy from different sources doesnt mean they are different blood. I know I have sold to different places in the past. Then bought new fish in the hope of fresh blood only to eventually track the original source back to myself. After many hours of questioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6610 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 i understand that, but why is it a bad thing to say different blood lines, say i breed from a trio, i keep 20 fry, they will be brother and sister or half brother and sister if i breed them together, so i buy 20 fish from (insert name) , yes i agree the chances are they maybe related, but i can 95% say they aren't brother or sister, yes they maybe 10th cousins removed 3 times, maybe not unrelated, but at least not as closely related, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 As above mentioned, sometime newbie that could included myself if I'm new to that species doesn't know what they doing brought the fish home and then fish stop breeding, even the experiences breeder would not able to guarantee can get them to breed again straight away because you changed their (fish) environment which will take time to settle down so all depend on the fish and depend on how long does it take them to get to know their new environment (tank). That might explain why some breeding pair take so long to breed again once you brought off the breeder but I don't rule out there are some breeder taken advantage of newbie lack of knowledge and sell fish which they know is not the best. There are plenty of honest breeder on this forum but in the same time some are not so good so use your common sense I guess but you will learn from your mistake and gain good knowledge along the way. If they breed they will be sold as breeders. Sometimes you see people claiming breeding when they are just a pair. Here is 2 tips, pretty simple ones at that. If you have not done any homework you are not doing yourself or the fish justice - do your homework and know what it is that you are buying. Ask questions of the seller - understand the reasons why they are selling them, how they are keeping them and maintaining them - dietary and environmentally. There is only one person to blame if you do not do your homework. Not saying that every seller of fish are angels but you have to do your best not to be a victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
63off Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Surely it's the buyer's responsibility to research the species they're buying and buying breeders is no different to buying display fish. If you haven't researched the fish and you don't know what you're buying then you shouldn't be buying it IMO. Many fors and againsts already mentioned but is there ever a guarantee you'll get a breeding pair even when you buy young stock? Probably not. I do see the point of this thread however, it's a good reminder to do more research and be very, very choosey when buying anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
