Why are our native fish less colorful?

[unheatedtank]

I try to look around very hard, and sadly found out that only goldies or rainbows can have colors and survive weather.

for bigger size, we can forget colours and have barra or native ray... Still less options than in asia and start wonder why.... Is it because we dont breed and hybrid native fish?

[angry]

I'll have a crack at answering your question

It has more to do with the history of Australia (in geological time) and the comparison to what other continents have...

We have relatively small amounts of freshwater for species to develop- no great lakes or massive rivers...

We have no great mountain ranges for there to be seasonal runoff from snow melt (we have the blue mountains but really they are puny) as such our freshwater is subject to drying out seasonally which would hinder aquatic species evolution

Most of the species we do have, live in brackish to full salt water (eg. barramundi) even the odd rainbow prefer brackish water to full fresh.... I think this is due to the river systems backing up with up saltwater during long droughts (who knows how long a drought can go for in geological time?) I know that before the floods 2 years ago the upper reaches of the Brisbane River where getting very salty...

Anyways we do have some very nice fish that are found nowhere else on earth-

Small:

Desert gobies, Blue-eyes and Rainbows

Large:

Mangrove Jacks, Saratoga, Murray cod, Yellowbelly, etc....

[unheatedtank]

Cheers, mangrove jack and saratoga are good for me... Planning for a tank.. Need to ask question about setup for them though. Maybe in another thread?

[grubby]

Take a look at a tank full of Aussie Rainbows, Rhads or Blue eyes, first thing in the morning, and then come and tell me they are not colourful. And that also goes for the Upper Katherine river Rainbow, M Australis, which some people reckon are dull, mine look a bright chocolate Orange with a hint of purple in the mornings, Stunning fish. What other fishes can turn their colours on and off and change colours like a Rainbow.

[grubby]

We make up for it with our Reef fish though !!

[unheatedtank]

We make up for it with our Reef fish though !!

That's totally right..

[rainbowrunner]

Many fish of the world are very dull but only colour up during spawning, I know my rainbows and gudgeons too are more colourful in the mornings, mine also get full real sunlight and look way better under artificial light.

I believe photo enhancement makes alot of fish look better than normal and has alot to answer for when comparing colour of fish

[rainbowrunner]

rainbows especially look and colour better in a planted tank

[DeadFishFloating]

Nothing in freshwater, is better, than a full display male empire gudgeon.

The red is good enough to make ya eyes bleed.

[grubby]

Nothing in freshwater, is better, than a full display male empire gudgeon.

The red is good enough to make ya eyes bleed.

I can't believe I m saying this, but yeah I agree with DFF for once on something. I just found a great creek full of Empires, and took a small school of them, the colours are insane.

[rainbowrunner]

I can't believe I m saying this, but yeah I agree with DFF for once on something. I just found a great creek full of Empires, and took a small school of them, the colours are insane.

I even "liked" it LOL

Edited January 14, 2013 by rainbowrunner

[shon982]

The ornate rainbow fish are stunners as well

A lot like tangs, not colourful (tangs being silver fish) until they show off to other fish, especially in the mornings

Then, once you see that, you'll be hooked

[Azedenkae]

I think this is quite simple to answer actually.

Why are our native fish not as colorful? Simple, they aren't. Not in general anyways, compared to fish around the world. In each region, fish evolves to adapt to their habitat, now that may or may not include the evolution of beautiful colors. And so just because of the way Australia is and where all our fish evolve in, stuff like some rainbowfish evolved beautiful colors, whilst bullrouts and the likes didn't. But on the same token, common bristlenoses aren't colorful whilst Green Texans are. So in many places there are a mix of those that are colorful and those that are not, regardless of if it's Australia or otherwise.

In fact, many of the fish in the hobby started out being rather drab, or at least not have the variety of color and shape and patterns and stuff that they do now, such as bettas, guppies and discus. Many cichlids too are not exactly the prettiest things when found in the wild.

So how did all these drab looking fish turn beautiful? Simple, with human experimentation. Be it selective breeding or hybridization, we take these fish into our fold, mess around with them, and turn them into beautiful creatures. So if we now want our natives to be prettier on our own accord, it's simple - we just have to experiment with them. Of course there's no one single guide as to what to do with them to turn them into beautiful fish, but that's basically all there is to it. Fish can be drab or colorful in the wild, regardless of where one is from. If one wants a pretty version of a drab fish, one has to search for a mutated version of one with a nice color, or catch some and experiment with 'em.

[shon982]

more pro-hybrid propaganda rubbish

Why are our native fish not as colorful? Simple, they aren't.

There are quite a few species which are. Simple, is it not?

Many cichlids too are not exactly the prettiest things when found in the wild.

The reason why Malawian, Tanganyikan and Victorian cichlids are so kept so widely is because THEY ARE so very colourful. How difficult is that to understand?!!!???!!

So how did all these drab looking fish turn beautiful

Evolution

be it selective breeding or hybridization, we take these fish into our fold, mess around with them, and turn them into beautiful creatures

No we dont.

If one wants a pretty version of a drab fish, one has to search for a mutated version of one with a nice color, or catch some and experiment with 'em.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just because it's a "drab" fish to you doesn't mean it is to someone else. Also the fact that colour isn't everything people keep fish for, just because you keep mongrel fish doesn't mean everyone wants them or the fact everyone wants some bright magical rainbow looking mutant fish. Some people like normal fish, with interesting behaviours. You don't see an elicon thing hiding and breeding in shells, you don't see a flowerhorn building a sand nest to breed on.

[Azedenkae]

more pro-hybrid propaganda rubbish

There are quite a few species which are. Simple, is it not?

The reason why Malawian, Tanganyikan and Victorian cichlids are so kept so widely is because THEY ARE so very colourful. How difficult is that to understand?!!!???!!

Evolution

No we dont.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just because it's a "drab" fish to you doesn't mean it is to someone else. Also the fact that colour isn't everything people keep fish for, just because you keep mongrel fish doesn't mean everyone wants them or the fact everyone wants some bright magical rainbow looking mutant fish. Some people like normal fish, with interesting behaviours. You don't see an elicon thing hiding and breeding in shells, you don't see a flowerhorn building a sand nest to breed on.

Wow, what the hell... o.O I mentioned hybridization once and you go off on a tangent? The hell is wrong with you.

There are quite a few species which are. Simple, is it not?

I meant they aren't not beautiful, as in some are not beautiful, but some are. Jesus.

The reason why Malawian, Tanganyikan and Victorian cichlids are so kept so widely is because THEY ARE so very colourful. How difficult is that to understand?!!!???!!

Duh, obviously many are. I go on and on and on about how Green Texans are beautiful basically EVERYTIME I mention them. Geez I even stated so in my post. I only said many aren't. Never said all cichlids are ugly. Don't blow it out of proportion. Take this for example, it's basically monochrome with a few specks in it.

Evolution

Yes and no. Read my post again. I said the ones that are already pretty out there are the product of evolution, of them developing said colors for whatever reason. What I'm talking about is the drab fish that later on became very nicely colored once it entered the hobby. Those are from artificial selection. Although yes, that's still evolution.

No we dont.

Yes we do. I gave examples in my post. Betta, discus, guppy. More so betta. Discus is for the color variety.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just because it's a "drab" fish to you doesn't mean it is to someone else. Also the fact that colour isn't everything people keep fish for, just because you keep mongrel fish doesn't mean everyone wants them or the fact everyone wants some bright magical rainbow looking mutant fish. Some people like normal fish, with interesting behaviours. You don't see an elicon thing hiding and breeding in shells, you don't see a flowerhorn building a sand nest to breed on.

Again, duh. I know that very well given that I keep Convicts and the fact that many cichlid keepers just rag on them all the time as 'that ugly fish'. I love them tho, I think heaps are beautiful. And obviously color isn't the only thing that matters. Don't forget I keep a deformed Ellioti. You think if I just care about the 'perfect color' or all that that I'd keep a deformed Ellioti? I love it's personality. I also have a rather 'slow' Pink Convict as well. I also love keeping bullrouts, and well they're not the prettiest thing out there. But I love them, because of their behaviour - how they act like rocks and then ambush fish. There are plenty of reasons to keep fish, from their personality to their shape, coloration, size, temperament, behaviour, etc. etc. and I never regard any of them as a less valid reason than another. How did you even get 'Azedenkae hates any drab fish' from my post? The heck.

And yes, obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I thought that was quite apparent by now, enough that I don't have to spell it out. The examples that I give, I'm sure some people wouldn't agree, but they'd at least understand that I'm stating those as examples that many people do agree with, and hence understand the idea of it.

Sheesh, don't keep your panties in a bunch mate. Read the post next time. And worse off, you placed lot's of words there in my mouth that I never said. Don't do that.

Aye?

Edited January 14, 2013 by Azedenkae

[63off]

Sure it's nice to have some colour in your tank but I personally prefer a bit of personality. I have 3 young gold comps in my tank and all they do is hide all day. I am seriously considering selling them and replacing them with some native fishes. The more I look into them the more beautiful they look and the more appealing the idea is.

A couple of the good LFS have good displays of natives. Pet City and Nielsen's Native are 2 that I know of, take yourself along and have a look at what they can look like.

[shon982]

Wow, what the hell... o.O I mentioned hybridization once and you go off on a tangent? The hell is wrong with you.

Relax, this is a forum, a place for dicussion, if you can't handle someone having a different opinion then the internetz is the wrong place for you

I meant they aren't not beautiful, as in some are not beautiful, but some are. Jesus.

Is what you mean't when you said

Why are our native fish not as colorful? Simple, they aren't

Good engrish! and what does a fictional character have to do with any of this? Gandalf!

Evolution

Yes and no. Read my post again. I said the ones that are already pretty out there are the product of evolution, of them developing said colors for whatever reason. What I'm talking about is the drab fish that later on became very nicely colored once it entered the hobby. Those are from artificial selection. Although yes, that's still evolution.

I should rather say natural selection then

Yes we do. I gave examples in my post. Betta, discus, guppy. More so betta. Discus is for the color variety.

Line bred is different to mixing and matching to make a frankenstein fish. For example a colour may NATURALLY occur, the fish may NATURALLY breed, and then produce more offspring of that colour variation.

Compared to... Oh! let's take this circular fish and force it to breed with this square fish and see what babies come out.

[angry]

Oh! let's take this circular fish and force it to breed with this square fish and see what babies come out.

Hmm a hexagon? that could be interesting! Lets do it

[grubby]

Im with Shon, you turn up at an ANGFA meeting spouting crap about Hybridizing rainbows and if your lucky we will just show you the door. Let it be stated here for the last time, Hybrid is a dirty word to rainbowfish keepers. We go the opposite way to everyone else we want pure strains and if you can't guarantee the catchment or source of these fish, we won't touch them. I currently keep two morphs of Rhadocentrus Ornatus, one from Bribie Island and one from Searys creek, I keep one group in a 2ft and the other in a pond. They will never ever see each other, even though they are the same species, why because they are to distinct genetic populations and I want to breed them pure. No one is gonna want Searys creek/Bribe Island crosses. So you can imagine we aren't too keen on hybrids let alone mixing catchments.

[rainbowrunner]

Natives arent colourful? Why do they call them "Rainbowfish" then ?????

[63off]

Hmm a hexagon? that could be interesting! Lets do it

I was thinking more a squircle.

[Azedenkae]

Relax, this is a forum, a place for dicussion, if you can't handle someone having a different opinion then the internetz is the wrong place for you

There is opinion, then there is putting words in other people's mouth. I can deal with opinion just fine, but when you start to state that I said things that I didn't, that's different.

Is what you mean't when you said

Good engrish! and what does a fictional character have to do with any of this? Gandalf!

Ever heard of a double negative? No? Bravo. Also I'm surprised you didn't know that 'Jesus' was used as an exclamation! No wait actually after what you just said right before, I am not surprised.

I should rather say natural selection then

Sure, up to you. It's still evolution nonetheless (in this case). Or do you not understand what Evolution is?

Line bred is different to mixing and matching to make a frankenstein fish. For example a colour may NATURALLY occur, the fish may NATURALLY breed, and then produce more offspring of that colour variation.

Compared to... Oh! let's take this circular fish and force it to breed with this square fish and see what babies come out.

Yes and both are experimentation done on fish. 'Simple, with human experimentation. Be it selective breeding or hybridization' was what I said. Notice how I gave both selective breeding and hybridization as examples?

Please, you attacking me on my English. How laughable.

But well, let me explain it you again in simpler terms then, perhaps you'll understand better when I write like this:

Some fish pretty in wild.

Some fish not pretty in wild.

Not pretty fish, we can turn into pretty fish.

Breed color and color to make more color! Yay!

That should be easier for you to understand.

[Azedenkae]

Okay peeps, all kidding aside, all I'm saying is that fish can be drab or pretty in the wild, and people do take less pretty fish and experiment with them (be it selective breeding or hybridization or whatever) to turn them into prettier fish.

That's all that there is to it.

[african-cichlids]

Well I personally think rainbows arnt the greatest aquarium fish for the eye to see IMO. But in saying that I'm sure people arnt setting up native tanks for that reason. I would never have native fish in my aquarium for the simple fact that you can get the native fish anywhere in our creeks and river streams. I'm more for fish that are from different countries for the simple fact that you can't just go to the local creek or river to stock up your aquarium. I'm probably going to be hated for this but that's just my opinion :-)

[shon982]

Why are our native fish not as colorful? Simple, they aren't

Please show me your magical double negative

Sure, up to you. It's still evolution nonetheless (in this case). Or do you not understand what Evolution is?

Yes natural selection is evolution, but hybridizing through human intervention is not natural selection. I did genetics and evolution at uni for a bit but that's about it...