Matmatmat Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Ok, so humor me here, Wild caught fish, why is it ok? I here some people saying they are protecting a spp going extinct by breeding them, but you can never release it? And most likely it's numbers are low from over-collection right? Most marine fish, I'm led to believe ( correct me if I'm wrong) are wild caught? How is that ok? I watched a show "fish tank kings " last night and they went out in a little submarine and collected "rare" fish to keep in this tiny, fake looking little aquarium for people to ogle.. How is this acceptable? We have so many fish in the hobby allready to choose to keep in our tanks, why do we need to keep raping nature of more spp? Please help me to understand, because right now I think we are just being ****s! Cheers mat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grubby Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 We were talking about Aussie natives, and you need a permit from the govt to release fish. Have a read here, ! Lake Eacham Rainbow Fish ! Tropical Rainforest, North Queensland, Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqc247 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 ME ME ME ME ME society we live in. Appeal to the consumers - how many occellaris clowns were caught n sold after Finding Nemo came out.... more income for the locals working the catche$ to earn a living to fuel the end user like us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matmatmat Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 We were talking about Aussie natives, and you need a permit from the govt to release fish. Have a read here, ! Lake Eacham Rainbow Fish ! Tropical Rainforest, North Queensland, Australia That's a good read, but isn't it just showing that collecting fish has caused big problems? It is good that hobiests have the original spp and can reintroduce them, I hope it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matmatmat Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 ME ME ME ME ME society we live in. Appeal to the consumers - how many occellaris clowns were caught n sold after Finding Nemo came out.... more income for the locals working the catche$ to earn a living to fuel the end user like us Yep, I get that. But like i said in the first post, how is that anything but us being ****s? Clowns can be captive bred right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betta Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I want to comment here but I'm worried that it will just incite a negative reaction from a lot of people, I'm not trying to be belligerent but do you own fish? I'm pretty sure they weren't created in a lab, everyone on here has fish that were at some point "wild caught". There are plenty of stories for both sides of the argument where the hobby has both caused problems & also saved wild fish. I totally hear where you're coming from as I saw the show you're talking about but don't you think it's cool to go to a public aquarium & see fish you'd never get the chance to see because you don't have access to a submarine. Like i said, I totally see where you're coming from but in order to have fish in fish tanks that are commercially bred & raised don't we need to catch some wild ones first so we have something to start with. I think that there should be a limit on how many are caught in the wild & then they should be tank bred from there but that is just too hard to control. Also with marine fish, the problem with breeding them is most of them have a pelagic stage & they drift on the current, I have bred clownfish in the past & had one hell of a time keeping the water quality up while keeping the fry off the bottom & not sucking them into the filtration, so it's just too hard & not very cost effective compared to catching wild ones. I think they should but suppliers probably don't see it that way. That's just my opinion on the subject & please correct me if I'm wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matmatmat Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Done get me wrong, yep I keep fish and am part of the problem , I'm not attacking anybody just asking opinions. Nope I don't like seeing fish that normally swim hundreds or thousands of kilometers kept in a few million liters.. That's just my thoughts though. The sea turtle display at seaworld is really sad to see. If its just a $$ thing maybe clowns aren't the coolest fish to keep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 There is a good write up about this project in Cichlid Atlas 1. Ofish - Project Piaba Due to the seasonal aspect of some fish species it is possible to harvest fish in a sustainable manner if we are not overly greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tech Den Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Collateral Damage, I think the term is. We could all own carp or gambusia...I am sure nature would not mind that.... A pest in one area does not mean it is a pest everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grubby Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 We were talking about Aussie natives, and you need a permit from the govt to release fish. Have a read here, ! Lake Eacham Rainbow Fish ! Tropical Rainforest, North Queensland, Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betta Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Done get me wrong, yep I keep fish and am part of the problem , I'm not attacking anybody just asking opinions. Nope I don't like seeing fish that normally swim hundreds or thousands of kilometers kept in a few million liters.. That's just my thoughts though. The sea turtle display at seaworld is really sad to see. If its just a $$ thing maybe clowns aren't the coolest fish to keep? Yep, I hear ya buddy but each to their own & some people do like looking at fish they'll never see in the wild. I totally agree about Seaworld & I feel the same way about the ray tank. I agree too with the clownfish point which is why I started breeding them in the first place but damn it was a lot of work & it was all worth it just feeling the personal satisfaction when they were old enough to sell, they were my babies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matmatmat Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 We were talking about Aussie natives, and you need a permit from the govt to release fish. Have a read here, ! Lake Eacham Rainbow Fish ! Tropical Rainforest, North Queensland, Australia Best of luck! Hope it works have they got the bigger introduced fish that ate them, out of the lake? Whats the deal, like how do they deal with pathogens that may have been acquired in tanks? Is it a real possibility or is it something the govt says to stop people releasing fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooder Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 What do you mean by problem? how is this a problem? Anyone noticed how alot of our species are really damn eager to breed, in unnatural, tiny, fish tanks? (im thinking, Rift Lakes and SA...) imagine the rate of breeding in the wild, then there is localities that people just CANT get to to collect... The amount of river systems that scientists haven't explored properly yet, the amount of species still undescribed.... Wild caught specimens, introduces fresh blood into the the hobby/industry whatever u wanna call it, and its vital to the hobby... Next time you get bad quality, inbred, deformed fish, dont then complain that we need more wild blood in the hobby lol...... If you cant look after fish in the optimal way, as some people cant, then you shouldnt keep them, we dont buy expensive wild for fish for the sake of it... lol my 2 cents.... Cooder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betta Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I watched a show "fish tank kings " last nightCheers mat Just a little side note on the show, how much of an annoying ball bag is Francis the "Fish Geek", he creates so much tension on the show, he thinks he's the shiznit & everyone has to listen to what he says, too funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grubby Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 The national parks thought about stocking lake eachem with Barra, as they can't get out and they can't breed in there, get them to scoff all the fish in there, let people fish in there, till the barra were gone and put the Eachem back in there. But whose to say some other moron wouldn't release mouthalmighty etc again. There are rainbows in there but they are Splendida that don't belong there and they are bigger and tougher than Eachems so they can survive the archers, mouthalmighty etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Yep wild caught ... better genetic variation... blah blah blah....$$$$$...... In some cases (eg. Lake Tanganyika) wild caught fish are being captive bred and restocked into the lake. It has been proven that stocking fish in an isolated body of water actually reduces genetic variation (as the introduced fish have the same genetics and are introduced at a size that gives them a survival/competitive advantage) No Hardy-wienberg principle here, move along folks... So fellas grab your wild caughts now before its all just a sham... or is it already?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneself Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Compared to commercial fishing, private collecting is hardly worth consideration in terms of impact...have you seen what a trawler dumps every single day? But that's a whole other kettle of fish. HAR HAR. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lachie1998 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Anyone noticed how alot of our species are really damn eager to breed, in unnatural, tiny, fish tanks? (im thinking, Rift Lakes and SA...) imagine the rate of breeding in the wild, then there is localities that people just CANT get to to collect... Cooder But there would be predators to keep the population numbers in check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sclero p Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Imported WC Rift Lake Cichlids are something which I find fairly dubious to be honest despite the so called certification/papers etc. If you were to subject the sagittal otiliths of these fish to otolith microchemical analysis their nursery grounds would most likely be a tank some where not the easily identified supposed lake of origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooder Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Yes, there would be predators... In my view, ( im thinking of Apistos mainly ) i dont see anything wrong with collecting wild caught fish for the hobby, as long as it does not endanger the fish population or destroy habitat, or mess with a countries heritage. Huge, money making, commercialized rigs often do their business without taking into consideration fish population etc, and that i dont agree with... With a confirmed wild caught fish or group of fish, their should be no ifs or buts about the quality or origin of the species except for the localities, variants, undescribed etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbeer Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Cooder, the quality can be questioned and this also leads back to one of the problems with releasing tank raised fish. In the wild there are selection pressures that lead to certain fish being more likely to breed for a time, and then displaced, in the case of Apistos it takes considerable effort to remain the top of the heap. in the aquarium the selection pressure is what I or you like, and little effort to remain on top. The outcome is we breed fish for straighter bars, for certain hints of colour that have little consequence, or even negative consequences in the wild. Psuedotrophous demasoni do not have straight bars, Rams are a very different fish. Additionally with wild caughts, especially apistogramma, you can get an old fish with little breeding life left in it. i do beleive fish can be caught responsably, but part of it is recognising that everyone in the hobby should not have them. In the case of Australian Rainbows, I would love to have some one day, but they will not be wild caught as I do not have the experience to take them and propogate for the hobby. I will leave that for others life our experts on the forum, and seek stock from them - one day. (I digress, so many fish I would like to play with one day......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFishFloating Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) merely some observations...... 1) catching fish is fun 2) many people see nothing wrong with cruelty to wild or captive fish 3) no point saving the species if you cant save the biotype 4) some problems are nicer than others (eg asian geckos are nicer than cane toads) 5) sustainable harvesting of fish is best done by taking juvies (high mortality rate) and leaving the older female fish (best breeders). http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3906 The capture and culture of post-larval fish and invertebrates for the marine ornamental trade - ResearchOnline@JCU Big Old Fat Fecund Female (BOFFF) hypothesis | Definition, Meaning and Translation of Big Old Fat Fecund Female (BOFFF) hypothesis | TermWiki.com Edited January 17, 2013 by DeadFishFloating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unheatedtank Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Will we love fish and chip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooder Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I totally agree with what gingerbeer and deadfishfloating said... no doubt I sort of *****led at the suggestion of NO wild caughts at all. and about us not being all able to have wild caught's? of course, specialized breeders with experience and knowledge should be the main ones to have wild caught fish, so that they can put pure, but more used to aquarium conditions into the hobby... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southfish Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I like this topic and it i guess there will always be two sides. I not on either side. Cairns Marine have a ton of info on this topic but can be a little complicated. If you like Mat i would more then happy to send some info your way if you were really interested. Email? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
