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panbee

Support your local fish or shop ???????

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This should say support your local fish or pet shop ?????

I have seen many posts on here about supporting the LFS. I agree with the idea as without them where would we be.

I have raised this issue because of the prices members are advertising their fish for on this forum. I accepr that someone can sell their fish for what ever price they want but what damage is this doing to the industry on the whole.

As an example I have seen several members selling EBJD for as little as $15.00 and up to approx $25.00. The wholesale price currently paid for an EBJD at3.5cm to 4.0cm is $20.00. The wholesaler would probably sell this at approx $35.00 to $40.00. The pet shop would probably sell for around $80.00 or maybe more.

So my question is, how are we supporting the LFS when fish are being sold on the forum at prices equal to or below wholesale price. All that is going to happen here is the value of these fish is going to be driven down because the shops will not be able to sell them. I believe the price for an EBJD sold on the forum at this size should be at least $35.00 to $40.00. This is still cheaper than the LFS but at least it gives them some chance of selling their fish.

I have used EBJD as an example. I am sure there are many other species that are being sold way too cheap as well.

Edited by panbee

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i wont support any upo here on sunny coast. most of them are too lazy to look after fish and most have disgusting quality. also, offering me $3 each for a 5cm is ridiculous and i wont do it. theyre just rude. i can goet 5 to 10 dollars all day. i hope they all shut down, but thats just me. they have no quality control either. and sell anything to make money.

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i wont support any upo here on sunny coast. most of them are too lazy to look after fish and most have disgusting quality. also, offering me $3 each for a 5cm is ridiculous and i wont do it. theyre just rude. i can goet 5 to 10 dollars all day. i hope they all shut down, but thats just me. they have no quality control either. and sell anything to make money.

Nicely said about quality..some are way worse then others but in general very poor.

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This should say support your local fish or pet shop ?????

I have seen many posts on here about supporting the LFS. I agree with the idea as without them where would we be.

I have raised this issue because of the prices members are advertising their fish for on this forum. I accepr that someone can sell their fish for what ever price they want but what damage is this doing to the industry on the whole.

As an example I have seen several members selling EBJD for as little as $15.00 and up to approx $25.00. The wholesale price currently paid for an EBJD at3.5cm to 4.0cm is $20.00. The wholesaler would probably sell this at approx $35.00 to $40.00. The pet shop would probably sell for around $80.00 or maybe more.

So my question is, how are we supporting the LFS when fish are being sold on the forum at prices equal to or below wholesale price. All that is going to happen here is the value of these fish is going to be driven down because the shops will not be able to sell them. I believe the price for an EBJD sold on the forum at this size should be at least $35.00 to $40.00. This is still cheaper than the LFS but at least it gives them some chance of selling their fish.

I have used EBJD as an example. I am sure there are many other species that are being sold way too cheap as well.

I no that you have used ebjd as a example but,

as some one who breeds ebjd iv tried to sell them to the wholesaler but thay say 'that thay do not buy fish from public' and lfs don't whant them ether .so now I sell them to a lfs that buys them in bulk and then sells them back to the wholesaler, then thay end up in the very shops that wont buy them from me . I try to support the lfs but thay don't make it eazy!

Edited by the German

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hahahahaha, man it goes both ways.

Many people here, through various means, have a fair idea what wholesalers pay for certain fish. So I was breeding some fish that were being sold in a couple of LFS for around $120 a pair. I know wholesalers were importing them at around $12 per fish. I had 35 pairs of nine month old juveniles, plus a few extra males that I wanted to sell. I had been selling them at $30 a pair on here, but lets face it QLDAF is a small audience compared to how many customers walk through the many LFS doors.

So I contacted a well known wholesaler, who offered me $1.50 per fish. Wouldn't budge. I was wanting $20 per pair, and $5 each for the extra males. C'mon I know what they were being imported for, and a wholesaler wouldn't have had to pay import and quarantine costs. So I went to a couple of well known LFS, one offered me $6 per pair, two others weren't interested. At $20 per pair, LFS still could have marked them up to $60 a pair and been selling them at half the price they were previously for sale at.

Really I wasn't overly concerned with the money, at this stage it was the principle of the thing. Don't rip me off. I would probably have spent $3 per fish on food, electricity and water.

So I gave the fish away to a LFS that has always looked after me (and no they weren't one of the LFS I approached early). I needed the tank space more than I needed the cash or the feeling I had been reamed.

I support 3 stores, RPC and AOA because you can't beat their prices and customer services. And Fishchicks because other LFS don't generally sell the fish I'm interested in.

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Know where your coming from fishhunter the shops up here are pretty ordinary, German same thing but it takes time to get lfs to trust you and your fish. But you figured it out and are able to sell your fish.

As far as comparing forum prices to lfs prices it comes back to the same old same old. Lfs have mega expenses compared to private breeders. The list starts with rent, electricity, wages, council permits, losses of live fish and dry products stolen, insurances, if they have a radio playing that has to be paid for, accountants, super for them and their staff and so on and so on.

Lfs can be up to and over 10grand a week just to break even. It is there only source of income and there livelyhood.

Breeders on here usually have a job and breeding is just a hobby. They have a few expenses but nothing like a business. The thing I dont like is breeders sell their fish here for a price then walk into a shop and demand the same price from them knowing very well the shop has to go 300% minimum higher to be able to get some form of profit out of the fish. If you are serious about selling to an lfs think about what there mark up has to be before you demand a price. They cant compete against a hobby breeder when that hobby breeder sells here for the same price. It is cutting your own throat so to speak.

Edited by Braddo

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I am the Same, it goes down to the customer service and the "Rip off Factor" I can afford some nice things but will not throw my money away, I was loyal to a single pet shop for years, and spent lots of money there, I found out through another friend the prices they paid at another LFS and relized the "special - or I'll look after you" price was in some cases twice that of the other petshop, so I used my feet and walked promising never to set foot in there again. moral to the story, I support the LFS, correct but only as long as they support me,

My local haunts are

FUR and FINS burpengary

thecoralshop.com.au

AOA and

the reef shop

thanks guys for the support.

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And because the hobby breeder can't sell their fish to a LFS or wholesaler for a price they are happy with, they sell the fish even cheaper here to offload them. Then the cycle spirals down, as the second, third, fourth, etc gen hobbyists who buy these fish, then sell their progeny for even cheaper on here, or where ever.

Forums, Facebook groups and Gum Tree aren't going away.

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Competition supports the market, not killing it. LFS as any other businesses should select the market position... Breeders here make the fish come to ppl like me, not at $100mark, and they need to survive too. I will select fish in lfs as that is their service wheneve i dont like the quality or attitude of the breeders so it comes both side, and support should means to grow the hobby to more ppl at better price.. Not making it so expensive that nobody want it anymore. I support AOA as their stockis good and competitive with great service.

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Why don't breeders and fish keepers set some realistic prices.

EG Electric yellows juvies usually sell on the forum @$1 per cm.

Why not sell them @$2 per cm on the forum and $1 per cm to lfs. After all lfs will buy bulk quantities so you get more off your hands in one delivery.

If the majority of members stuck with these sort of prices it helps breeders get back some of their expenses.

Most of us know what the going prices are for all species of fish.

But everyone would have to agree on a set price. Then don't budge from that price.

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The fact is that forums are the best place to go for selling fish. Honestly, you can set up a fishroom if you are dedicated and it is a hobby to you, breed fish that other hobbyists are interested in, and sell them to other hobbyists. We all appreciate good prices, but whats more, we appreciate people and stores that stock for us. Not businessmen trying to make a profit, hobbyists and shop owners that want to help the fish community out, by being a better source for quality, rare stock.

Labyrinth ive heard is good, Fishchick aquatics i know is good and from what i have seen of Smiths Aquarium, its also very good, And who can beat the price and stocklist of AOA?

There would be many others.

Honestly, i cant figure out why you would setup a fish business if you were only in if for the money... people who are interested in it should be the ones that set them up

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Ultimately it is the LFS themselves (generally and as whole - I know there are exceptions) who have created this situation.

Back home I dealt with several shops, they paid me my asking price, ran with 66 to 75% GP, and turned the stock over. With good relationships in place you would never even think of selling privately (except for breeding stock), but here on the coast it is a different story. Most stores are run by people with no business sense and seem more intent on ripping off the community rather than trying to build the same sort of relationships. This is their choice and for that I hope they suffer.

I guess it does open the door for a decent operator to move in and set up shop but I guess people are not lining up to take the risk (or the potential reward.)

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I have been told, that people will always come to me due to price hikes and low quality in shops. I make a good living doing it. I would never sell fish to a shop unles they pay what my fb members do, or id be just throwing away money. Sella fish to them for $1 or $10 they will still sell them for same prices.

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competition is healthy ,,,,,,,,

Supply and demand determines the price along with quality and service.

We support the local LFS as the quality is excellent and we literally need them to import the Quality of fish (Betta sp.) we are interested.

Recently however visited a petshop in bribane eastern suburb and the quality and conditions of some of the fish and tanks was a crime.

Always doing the rounds of the LFS in Brisbane and surrounding areas some of the LFS I have visited recently I was embarrassed for them. The betta barracks were not working and the poor betta where in very very green sludgy water ...... couldn't even see them in the jars ..... and asking double the normal asking price for them ;;;;;;; and looking around the fish room in that particular east side store I thought to myself ..... must have changed ownership use to have lot better quality and variety,(mainly salt water fish anyhow) the staff weren't that knowledgeable or helpful. WASN'T HAPPY JAN I CAN TELL YOU and will not be returning to that particular store.

but YES DO HAVE MY FAVOURITES ,,,,,,,,

My local LFS is great not only providing its customer with an importing service but always of very high quality stock, variety and another one of my favorites is the newer chain stores that I found have awesome ranges of the rarer fish, service and pricing is competitive they get my business and $$$ atm.

I also support RPC, PETCITY and AOA because you can't beat their prices (customer discounts) and customer services and Fishchick because no other LFS in our local area selling the type of quality imported fish we interested in.

My $ would easily go to anyone who is locally breeding and has the same Quality and variety as the imported betta but still searching ..... would be a bargain as no import cost per fish on top of fish price.

See some LFS come and go ....open and close down ... but without the competitive pricing, quality or variety they must realize their customers will go elsewhere and take their hard earned dollars elsewhere as well

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Fully agree with Saffa, position yr stocks and services with quality will take my money and other amateur hobbyist. Trying to set a price or to beat supply and demand rule in an open market only giving you free fish for your own dinner, lol.

I can spend half a day in a LFS looking at their fish and tanks without any complaints, and thanks to that, i will buy something and will come back.

I went to a breeder just because the price is cheap, but if he think giving cheap price can overlook services, i just walked away... But most of breeders i met were awesome, good price and friendly, so of course, I love them and will definitely select them first. Even better, if the breeders are near you place, no need to drive few hours, how can I resist to come to them, get some fish, have a nice chat, look at their big set up, go back and drool, to me, it is my HOBBY, and I am happy, lol

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Back in the day, breeders could fix prices and lfs bought almost all their cichlids direct from the breeders.

These days lfs buy their cichlids from wholesalers and usually only offer store credit for fish from breeders.

I sell the fish I breed at a price that enables stores to make a hefty mark up on them, but actually getting them to buy some is an ordeal. I could be offering to sell them $50 notes @ $2 each, and they would likely still cry poor.

Yes the explosion of backyard breeders has impacted the cichlid market for lfs, breeders are producing more fish than lfs can sell. That drives the price down.

BUT the same thing was true of danios/barbs/tetra when I started in the hobby......... and has always been true of most livebearers.

Also buying cheap fish and onselling at a profit is a game!

And a rather fun one at that.

I sell my fry with the sole aim being to pay the power bill. I happily run at a loss, but in reality its a subsidised loss.

But I get a kick out of hearing about my fish being onsold, sometimes 4 or 5 times, with profit added each time!

Now thats well played!

Just as raising large numbers of the fish you like is a game.

If stores want to take advantage of the cheap prices hobbyists sell fish for......... then they should get on here and buy them.

Contact the breeders, heck try get an exclusive on a species from a breeder........

Anything to get an edge on the competition and make profit!

Capatilism man, it keeps lfs workers able to pay the rent. And when its win/win then the hobby and the lfs grow!

Besides, most local hobbyists put more effort into water quality and nutrition, than do overseas large scale breeders who feed wholesalers bulk fish.

Thats not a dig at wholesalers, just stating the truth.

i'd rather buy electric yellows raised on spectrum than on aquaculture crumble.

whys_wally_zpsfcc9bb85.jpg

Edited by Donny@ageofaquariums

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Prices are difficult and market demand/trends can impact that, poor cichlids. I think if you build a healthy relationship with your local LFS you can always get the best price (usually cheaper then walk in's) and usually the best quality, if they dont keep them for themselves :)

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This thread has gone off the rails totally with most people comparing and discussing the LFS. I started the thread looking for discussions about breders *******ising prices on fish that they are selling at prices that are too low. People are breeding fish for whatever reason with no research to see if they can sell them and so with no where to go they then sell them at low prices on the forum rather than cull them. This is only stuffing up the hobby in my opinion and making it very hard for the LFS. The thread was not intended as a discussion on which LFS might be good or bad which is the direction in which it has gone. I started on referring to EBJD but lets go 1 step further and bring FESTAE into the discussion. Just over a year ago I purchased 2 female and 1 male Festae at $45 ea for the FM and $35 for the M. They were around the 9cm. I believed this was a fair price from a private seller. About 2 monthe ago I purchased 3 more from the same seller at $60.00 ea. There were around the 12cm. Once again I believed the price to be reasonable. More recently I have seen 2 sellers getting rid of their excess Festae at very low prices. So the question on this issue is are my Festae still worth the $60.00 or are they now worth $10.00. If I breed them are the fry goung to be worth say $10 or $12 around the 4cm or $1.00.

You can't stop people selling at these stupid prices but they are totally stuffing things up for everybody in my opinion.

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I have been told, that people will always come to me due to price hikes and low quality in shops. I make a good living doing it. I would never sell fish to a shop unles they pay what my fb members do, or id be just throwing away money. Sella fish to them for $1 or $10 they will still sell them for same prices.

What will you do when your facebook members don't need fish?

How can your lfs be expected to pay the same price for your fish when they are a business and have to make a profit?

The lfs can buy your fish but he has to feed and care for them untill they are sold.

If you build up a relationship with your lfs and he buys from you then the quality of the livestock in the shops in your area will improve.

Which facebook member will supply you with a pump or heater when you need one in a hurry?

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Somewhere along the line you will need a lfs.

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This thread has gone off the rails totally with most people comparing and discussing the LFS. I started the thread looking for discussions about breders *******ising prices on fish that they are selling at prices that are too low. People are breeding fish for whatever reason with no research to see if they can sell them and so with no where to go they then sell them at low prices on the forum rather than cull them. This is only stuffing up the hobby in my opinion and making it very hard for the LFS. The thread was not intended as a discussion on which LFS might be good or bad which is the direction in which it has gone. I started on referring to EBJD but lets go 1 step further and bring FESTAE into the discussion. Just over a year ago I purchased 2 female and 1 male Festae at $45 ea for the FM and $35 for the M. They were around the 9cm. I believed this was a fair price from a private seller. About 2 monthe ago I purchased 3 more from the same seller at $60.00 ea. There were around the 12cm. Once again I believed the price to be reasonable. More recently I have seen 2 sellers getting rid of their excess Festae at very low prices. So the question on this issue is are my Festae still worth the $60.00 or are they now worth $10.00. If I breed them are the fry goung to be worth say $10 or $12 around the 4cm or $1.00.

You can't stop people selling at these stupid prices but they are totally stuffing things up for everybody in my opinion.

Will your house's price be the same without paying attention to the neighbourhood? If they are up in good year, yours are up too, if down, wish that it stays...

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I support my LFS. I buy almost all of my fish from them. Why? Because the fish quality is great, the knowledge is great. Whereas I will never go back to another place locally that sells fish too.

A back story; The usual store sell their angels at $9.95, the other place sell theirs for $12.50 and I went in there once and saw their tanks, way overstocked, horrible conditions, I rescued the only angels left, they're now twice the size and healthy. Will never go back.

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To answer you question panbee it all comes down to supply and demand. Cichlids especially go through cycles. Prices on cichlids is very up and down. This month there might be literally thousands of festae's next none. In the months where there is a glutton the prices come down dramatically, everyone sells there stock including breeders. Then all of a sudden there is none around again the prices then rise everybody chases them and the cycle starts again.

The trouble is they breed in large numbers. The lfs dont have the luxury of just lowering there price at their leasure. They have paid a certain price so they have to sell at a certain price. Ocassional they will place a special on lower than cost just to get rid of stock that has been sitting.

Hope that answers your question panbee.

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This thread has gone off the rails totally with most people comparing and discussing the LFS. I started the thread looking for discussions about breders *******ising prices on fish that they are selling at prices that are too low. People are breeding fish for whatever reason with no research to see if they can sell them and so with no where to go they then sell them at low prices on the forum rather than cull them. This is only stuffing up the hobby in my opinion and making it very hard for the LFS. The thread was not intended as a discussion on which LFS might be good or bad which is the direction in which it has gone. I started on referring to EBJD but lets go 1 step further and bring FESTAE into the discussion. Just over a year ago I purchased 2 female and 1 male Festae at $45 ea for the FM and $35 for the M. They were around the 9cm. I believed this was a fair price from a private seller. About 2 monthe ago I purchased 3 more from the same seller at $60.00 ea. There were around the 12cm. Once again I believed the price to be reasonable. More recently I have seen 2 sellers getting rid of their excess Festae at very low prices. So the question on this issue is are my Festae still worth the $60.00 or are they now worth $10.00. If I breed them are the fry goung to be worth say $10 or $12 around the 4cm or $1.00.

You can't stop people selling at these stupid prices but they are totally stuffing things up for everybody in my opinion.

I can't wait to get home tonight and reply to this post. I think you've totally missed the point that LFS and wholesales are just as bad as the hobbyist breeder.

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I shop for fish/equipment the same way I shop for everything - I go where the price and/or the service is the best.

I like to support my LFS because they give great service and are always happy to help out with advice etc so I buy fish from them when the price is competitive. I'm okay with paying a little extra per fish because I can see the fish before I get them and take them home straight away. But if I can find fish at a really great price at an online store or on a forum then I'll buy from there.

Same thing for hardware - I recently bought over $1k worth of lighting from the LFS because the price was close enough to online prices and I'd rather be able to just go back to the store and sort out warranty issues with people I know and trust if I need to. I buy all my fish food from Australian online stores like AoA because the price is way better than in stores and I can bulk buy. On the other hand, when I was looking to buy a couple of canister filters I ended up having a pair of Eheim 2080s shipped from Germany for half the price they are online in Aus.

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