i believe she has dropsy :(

[poeticjustice88]

180 litre tank

2 calico oranda - adult

1 adolescent calico

2 adult shubunkins

and a couple of catfish and algae eaters

Nitrite 0

nitrate spiked to 20ppm. First time its ever done this without a death. no idea why

ammonia .25 ppm

ph 7

kh ?

My calico is around 2 years old. She has always been a fat, egg shaped girl. always had a really big gut on her, ever since i got her. But i recently noticed she is very lathargic, just gets pushed around by the current and does dlips and rolls. its not too strong i might add, the current. have just today noticed some pineconing on her scales. I am really worried. I know everyone loves their fish' dearly, but these goldfish and my life. I would do anything to keep em healthy so I am desperate to find out what I can do.

I have read that salt baths can help to remove any excessive internal buildup. Can I please get some solid answers on what salt, how much and how often! So many different forums say different things, one says aquarium salt, the other says NEVER use it, one says table salt non iodized the other says epsom. Please, I beg for a straight answer.

I also need some ideas on medications and location on the gold coast, qld. I have very little money but will find a way. The best medications for her please, whether they be a general med or a specific type.

temperature? Do I raise or lower the temps? It has been cold recently on the gold coast, my tank is not heated. could this be a cause?

ANYTHING else that you may be able to tell me would be so helpful i could not thank you enough. I am desperate to keep her alive as she is my pride and joy. ANY help you may be able to give me to help fend off the inevitable would be greatly appreciated.

As I said, I have no money, I am physically disabled and do not work so the cheaper the meds the better. In saying that. If anybody on the gold coast has some meds that would suit her conditions, please, I beg of you, sell me what you have left at a decent price so i can save her

Michael

[Donny@ageofaquariums]

Do the shubunkins pick on her? (I dont usually keep comet style fish with fancys)

Are the catfish and algae eaters really well fed? ( they will rasp on slow goldfish at night if they get hungry)

What food do you feed the goldys? (diet can cause short and longterm problems)

[poeticjustice88]

Do the shubunkins pick on her? (I dont usually keep comet style fish with fancys)

Are the catfish and algae eaters really well fed? ( they will rasp on slow goldfish at night if they get hungry)

What food do you feed the goldys? (diet can cause short and longterm problems)

Hey there donny,

Nope EVERYBODY gets along perfect, really perfect. no one ever attacks, nothing. i know that the tank is most likely overstocked, however never had any problems, no sick or ill inhabitants, everything was perfect so I did not see this to be an issue.

everybody is really well fed, i most likely overfeed at night time, only because the two large calico oranda scoop up absolutely everything before the others get a chance to eat it, so i drop in a little more, but everyone gets fair share.

I used to feed bloodworms each night with flakes every other day, but no money for the last 6 months so i have just been feeding flake food. I do mix it up a little bit with the flake food (tetrapond flaked fish food ) goldfish granules (the floating type ) a sprinkle of tropical flake food, and i break up spirulina wafers every other night. so i will use one of these mentioned foods each night, then the next night use a different one. I also try and give them blanched peas once a week. havent for the last couple though.

[Bubblegirl]

Hi, I'm sorry your fish is unwell. I am afraid that if the fish does have dropsy the outlook is very bad. Some people do say you can cure dropsy but mostly it just seems to improve the fish for a time and then it eventually succumbs to the disease.

Apologies if you know this already but dropsy is a symptom rather than a disease in itself. The fish swells because of kidney failure, which means it can no longer osmoregulate and so it retains water. There are a number of possible causes for the kidney failure including bacterial and parasite infections, and some people claim, diet (too much protein long-term).

Epsom salt added to the water can help the fish osmoregulate so that it will not retain as much water. This can help the swelling, but this is just symptom relief, it is not fixing the underlying problem. Aquarium salt or table salt are chemically different to epsom salt - they will make it harder for the fish to osmoregulate and actually make the problem worse. I'm sorry though, I'm not sure what exact dose of epsom salt you will need.

The next step is to try and correct whatever has caused the fish to have kidney failure. Some people treat with the antibiotic metronidazole which targets anaerobic bacteria and have some success, at least for awhile. However, you cannot buy metro in Australia for fish, except from a vet which would cost a fortune. You may be able to get some in Australia from someone on a goldfish forum, if you ask, but it's a bit of a long shot.

The best thing to do is to try and correct any underlying conditions that could have led to your fish getting sick. I think your tank is a little overcrowded. I had three goldfish in a 150 litre tank for awhile and even with two 30% water changes a week it became difficult to keep the nitrates down to an acceptable level. They are now in a 300 litre tank. Are you sure your test kit is accurate? Ammonia and nitrite should always be at 0 and nitrate is good to keep at between 10-20 ppm. I just find it surprising that you've not had nitrates ta 20 ppm before with that many fish in the tank. Also the ammonia level will bother the fish so maybe do some water changes and make sure you use a dechlorinator such as prime that detoxifies ammonia.

It is better to have a heater in a goldfish tank to keep the temperature from fluctuating - the actual temperature itself is less important.

The other thing I would suggest is to make a longer post in a diagnosis/disease thread on a forum, either here or one of the dedicated goldfish forums and see what people suggest.

Good luck - you obviously care about your fish a lot so they are lucky to have you.

[poeticjustice88]

Hi, I'm sorry your fish is unwell. I am afraid that if the fish does have dropsy the outlook is very bad. Some people do say you can cure dropsy but mostly it just seems to improve the fish for a time and then it eventually succumbs to the disease.

Apologies if you know this already but dropsy is a symptom rather than a disease in itself. The fish swells because of kidney failure, which means it can no longer osmoregulate and so it retains water. There are a number of possible causes for the kidney failure including bacterial and parasite infections, and some people claim, diet (too much protein long-term).

Epsom salt added to the water can help the fish osmoregulate so that it will not retain as much water. This can help the swelling, but this is just symptom relief, it is not fixing the underlying problem. Aquarium salt or table salt are chemically different to epsom salt - they will make it harder for the fish to osmoregulate and actually make the problem worse. I'm sorry though, I'm not sure what exact dose of epsom salt you will need.

The next step is to try and correct whatever has caused the fish to have kidney failure. Some people treat with the antibiotic metronidazole which targets anaerobic bacteria and have some success, at least for awhile. However, you cannot buy metro in Australia for fish, except from a vet which would cost a fortune. You may be able to get some in Australia from someone on a goldfish forum, if you ask, but it's a bit of a long shot.

The best thing to do is to try and correct any underlying conditions that could have led to your fish getting sick. I think your tank is a little overcrowded. I had three goldfish in a 150 litre tank for awhile and even with two 30% water changes a week it became difficult to keep the nitrates down to an acceptable level. They are now in a 300 litre tank. Are you sure your test kit is accurate? Ammonia and nitrite should always be at 0 and nitrate is good to keep at between 10-20 ppm. I just find it surprising that you've not had nitrates ta 20 ppm before with that many fish in the tank. Also the ammonia level will bother the fish so maybe do some water changes and make sure you use a dechlorinator such as prime that detoxifies ammonia.

It is better to have a heater in a goldfish tank to keep the temperature from fluctuating - the actual temperature itself is less important.

The other thing I would suggest is to make a longer post in a diagnosis/disease thread on a forum, either here or one of the dedicated goldfish forums and see what people suggest.

Good luck - you obviously care about your fish a lot so they are lucky to have you.

I have just boujght some epsom salts to throw into the 20 litre tank i have set up for her. i have also got some formalin malachite. i never wanted to use it because it is so strong. like treating the common cold with chemo. but it will do as an antibacterial.

my test kits are very accurate. i have a 750 lph external canister with uv sterilizer and internal 1200lph canister filter, so i have alot of filtration to keep everything down. as well as a bubbler filter with ammo chips. the external filter has ammo and nitrate chips. so everything stays good.

have never had high readings of nitrate or nitrite before, unless in the case of a death in the tank. the ammonia is a little harder to keep on track of, as i do know that the tank is a little bt overcrowded, so the amonia is always there in small doses. but i do my best tp keep ahead of it

[Bubblegirl]

I'm afraid malachite green and formalin will do nothing to help dropsy and will only further stress an already sick fish, so I wouldn't advise using it. Where dropsy is caused by a bacterial infection it is an internal infection that requires antibiotics that can penetrate the fish's tissues or be given to them orally (preferable) Unfortunately in Australia we do not have access to antibiotics for fish, unless a vet supplies them. Malachite/formalin is only useful for external infections. Using it for dropsy is a bit like a human trying to cure pneumonia by taking a long bath in dettol, if that makes sense.

I think the problem with your tank is the constant low-level of ammonia. Ammonia is extremely toxic to fish and chronic low grade exposure will eventually make them all sick. Your stocking levels are part of the problem but your filtration may also be inadequate. It's good to have two filters running and you've got enough flow through, but I wonder if you have enough good quality media in your filters? You need to create enough surface area for an adequate population of denitrifying bacteria to grow. Perhaps you don't have that.

[Donny@ageofaquariums]

Excellent posts there from Bubblegirl, well worth reading over them a few times.

I try to find the trigger event that caused the problem.

First I choose the area

1) water chemistry

2) nutrition

3) compatability

Now bubblegirl has suggested that water chemistry may not be ideal, and thats where I usually start as well.

But I am thinking that it could very well be a nutrition based problem. Too much proccessed food, not enough roughage.

now there is still the case its a compatability problem, maybe males harassing a female or commons harassing fancies.......... but probably not.

I'd look at the food you feed, do some research on other options

and then purchase a large quantity of something good.

I dont know the size of your fish but they should be able to take a 3mm floating pellet,

definitely could if you soaked them

Anyway I reccomend investing $50 in this stuff

https://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalogue_products.php?prodID=6498&catID=113

Should last you a while.

[poeticjustice88]

Excellent posts there from Bubblegirl, well worth reading over them a few times.

I try to find the trigger event that caused the problem.

First I choose the area

1) water chemistry

2) nutrition

3) compatability

Now bubblegirl has suggested that water chemistry may not be ideal, and thats where I usually start as well.

But I am thinking that it could very well be a nutrition based problem. Too much proccessed food, not enough roughage.

now there is still the case its a compatability problem, maybe males harassing a female or commons harassing fancies.......... but probably not.

I'd look at the food you feed, do some research on other options

and then purchase a large quantity of something good.

I dont know the size of your fish but they should be able to take a 3mm floating pellet,

definitely could if you soaked them

Anyway I reccomend investing $50 in this stuff

https://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalogue_products.php?prodID=6498&catID=113

Should last you a while.

as i said in one of my earlier posts, i do change the food quite regularly

"I do mix it up a little bit with the flake food (tetrapond flaked fish food ) goldfish granules (the floating type ) a sprinkle of tropical flake food, and i break up spirulina wafers every other night."

I have done this since day 1. i have also fed on a regular basis bloodworms. Today i got some bloodworms as well as some brine shrimp. I have also used in the past blanched peas. so i am confident in saying they have a sturdy mixed diet.

I now have her in a hospital tank, just a little 20 litre one i had laying around. i have an over the top filter for filtration and it also drops the water in from the top, so it makes some bubbles aswell. I have an air bubbler with some media in there aswell. an ornament she can use to hide in aswell. I have been dosing it, starting today with epsom salts. It is a 20 litre tank so i am using 3/4 teaspoon of salt for the whole tank, dissolve the salts and put them in. done it twice today and did a water change, 70% tonight. i will repeat this process for as long as i can, or until i can get some medication for her. the local fish shop advised me to use some formalin malachite aswell. as it acts as an antibacterial. around the 1 drop to 5 litres mark. i hav not done this yet. i am VERY hesitant to do so as it is formaldehyde and very strong, aswe ll as very easy to overdose. so i am still looking around for other options . any information on medications for her will be extremely helpful

Kind Regards,

Michael

[Donny@ageofaquariums]

Its an internal problem, "formalin malachite" aint gonna do nothing about that.

[poeticjustice88]

my loving partner helped me to pay for some medication for our poor "nugget". We went out and got some "Pimafix". The bottle states it is an antifungal remedy that aids in the healing of mouth and body fungus;cottony growth, fin and tail rot and redness of skin and body. Also aids healing of internal and external bacterial infections. The store that we went to, "City Farmers" in Labrador had a selection of medications, but this looked to be the best suited for the symptoms we are seeing. It looks to be a 7 Day schedule of medication, so with any luc k we will see some improvements in her condition. She is still in the hospital tank I have set up, with epsom salts being dosed in twice per day, and a water change every night. Doin g every thing we can on our side, now the fight is up to her.

Thank you everyone for your input and information towards this, it is truly, greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Michael