Help - Suggest an African cichlid line up

[Tazzabro]

So new to fish, I got told to google cool fish or look in photos and try find some out..

Fish that look awesome so far:

Mpanga, Strawberry Aulonocara, Melanochromis Chipokae, Tropheus, Magunga, Chalinochromis bifrenatus, Christmas Fulu, Chisumulae

Red tipped black shark. (I know its not a cichlid but **** I'd love one of these in the tank. I think theyd just be so cool to watch.

Haven't looked at any compatibility yet? any suggestions?

Thinking more towards a display tank (mostly males) so I don't mind having aggressive fish, just want to learn how to keep them properly as I don't have the tanks or room for breeding(yet) and really want an active tank.

Btw my tank is a 4ft x2ft x 2ft.

[Yoshi]

bristlenose ? I have some for sale (well growing but when u are ready they will be ready)

[Tazzabro]

Yeah I'm sure I'll get one of those too. How do I find compatibility for these fish? I'm looking at what ph and water temp is good and similar but don't know much about What amount of what fish? and what ones dont work with others?

[Karl18]

Mate if there's heaps of hiding places you'll be fine,because most Africans besides peacocks are aggressive

[andybricky]

Try keep your ph around 8 . My Malawi display tank sits at 8.2. Grab yourself a test kit. I would grab some rift lake salt to add to water to buffer it and keep your new fishies happy. Through winter I keep my heaters at 26.

Make sure your tank is circled and water perimeters are all good before you start adding fish.

Get the water right before the addiction starts, saves a lot hassle. Happy water makes for happy fishies.

[70NKY]

http://www.thatpetplace.com/AfricanCichlidCompatibility-Chart.jpg

Quick google search found this compatability chart which shows you which species can exist nicely together.

[Tazzabro]

Ok awesome. Yeah I plan to get the water in it and piping done this weekend and pick up the testing kits and all and hopefully I'll keep posting in New to Fish and Forum so you can keep track if your interested.

Yeah well thats great so basically create many hiding places and then i can put in whatever africans? plus I really want that Red tail (but might put him in last since he'd be the most aggressive (wouldnt it?)) What's the best material for hiding places?

How many fish can I put in a 75 gallon as well?

[Tazzabro]

Great Thanks [MENTION=8235]70NKY[/MENTION]. I'll give that a go.

[Karl18]

Rocks and driftwood mainly, the more fish you have the more water changes you have to do, so I'd stick with 10 or less

[BigPete86]

Research diet differences mate, Tropheus are vegos & so are Mbuna (Melanochromis Chipokae) & by feeding the peacocks etc. their required meaty, protein filled diet you will more than likely have problems like Malawi Bloat or general nutrition deficiencies in some of your vego fish. Some ppl say "I feed my Tropheus brine shrimp & high protein foods with no problems." but some problems don't present straight away. Think about what nutrient & diet deficiencies do to ppl & apply that same principle to the fish.

Compatibility can be sorted by getting enough numbers to spread aggression but they are animals, there are no guarantees, they don't follow rules or guidelines. Set up as many territories, holes, caves, line-of-sight breaks etc. to give you the best chance of everybody getting along. African cichlids are kind of contradictory too, the more places to hide, shelter etc. the more you'll see them.

[Tazzabro]

10 fish for a 4ft x 2ft x2ft i was thinking more near 20-30, I do have a sump as well so less maintenance. Yeah probably will stay away from the Aulonocaras. So do not put a herbi , Carni, and Omni 's together? I was doing some reading and saw they have lots of different float and sink food and you can pretty much use that to ensure the fish food is getting to the right place. Is that the case?

Yeah so I'm thinking a tank without Peacocks:

Revised list (with way more revising to come)

Elongatus Mpnaga (Pseudotrohpeus)

Electric Yellow

F1 Frontosa "Zaire Blue" Kapampa

Red tip Black Shark

Paratilapia polleni

Melanochromis Chipokae (probably going to stay away from this one as well)

Tyrannochromis

Champsochromis

elongatus chewere (Metriaclima)

Tropheus

Christmas Fulu

[BigPete86]

...... Ya need bigger than a 4ft for Champsochromis IMO

Not trying to sound rude but I hate repeating myself... RESEARCH THE FISH bruz.

I've told ya my opinions & it's up to you if ya wanna keep innapropriate species together but most fish will eat whatever is presented to them, ESPECIALLY greedy Tropheus types so its a lil naive to think that you'll separate diets by having floating, sinking, flake type foods...

Some ppl have no dramas keeping dramatically different fish together but they are a minority.

All I'm trying to say is:

with your limited experience with fish you're more than likely setting yourself up for disaster by mixing innapropriate species together. If you keep it simple to start & spend some time learning, researching etc. then if you're desperate to keep such different species together do it down the track when you have a better understanding of water chemistry, osmotic pressure, difference in types of water (Hard, Soft, Acidic, Alkaline etc.), fish needs & behaviours, fish mineral requirements to absorb from the water, etc. etc. etc. then you should at least be prepared for any disasters that may present.

[BigPete86]

& yeah I'd go bout 20x 10cm@full grown cichlids in that size system but it all depends on how often you're willing to do water changes, gravel cleaning etc. base line for water changes is to keep your nitrates below 40ppm. I personally keep nitrates a lot lower but I love my fish & my tanks & am more than happy to do tank maintenance & I'm a night owl so water changes are usually done between 10pm & 1am. No time lost during my day & I can watch TV for 3 of my 6 tanks' water changes too

[Donny@ageofaquariums]

Magunga ~ get msobo instead. Same look, but easier to find. Both fish have a 90% chance of becoming a hyper aggressive problem.

Paratilapia polleni ~ no

Tyrannochromis ~ no

Champsochromis ~ no

elongatus chewere ~ no

Tropheus ~ a single male of ONE species should be ok

Christmas Fulu ~ yea why not.

Elongatus Mapanga ~ personally I'd get lab. mbamba instead, but either will work

Electric Yellow ~ of course lol! GET 6, of course it means ya cant feed whitecrane or they will go dirty. If you were going to crane them I would not get lecky yellows and instead get sunshine peacocks!

F1 Frontosa "Zaire Blue" Kapampa ~ sounds expensive, not something I would add in with aggressive little mbuna in a 4 footer.

Red tip Black Shark ~ yea why not, cheap and tough enough to hold a cave.

Strawberry Aulonocara ~ Its a display, I'd buy lots of "assorted peacocks". Dont worry about names with peacocks, buy what looks pretty.

Melanochromis Chipokae~ should be ok, just dont buy auratus by mistake. Can you tell the difference?

Chalinochromis bifrenatus ~ a single chalinochromis should be able to lurk away IF theres enough caves/rock piles AND you add it early!

Chisumulae ~ beautiful fish, very under rated.

As far as diet goes, just feed them all spectrum pellets.

Too easy.

[70NKY]

10 fish for a 4ft x 2ft x2ft i was thinking more near 20-30, I do have a sump as well so less maintenance.

Mate I've got about 26 roughly in a 4x18x18... My fish are between 5 and 18cm with the majority being juvies still. I think that number is fine although I may need to thin them out as they grow.

[Tazzabro]

Thanks [MENTION=9752]BigPete86[/MENTION] Yeah planning on starting slow. These are more fish I've just looked at (not researched yet) just trying to get a list of cool fish then figure out what will work and how many. Yeah not too worried about tank maintenance I can definitely find time on the weekend to do a water change even during the week (even if I'd need to do 2/3 a week?) So not to concerned about that I know there is maintenance time needed to have a wicked looking tank with healthy fish.

[Tazzabro]

Magunga ~ get msobo instead. Same look, but easier to find. Both fish have a 90% chance of becoming a hyper aggressive problem.

Paratilapia polleni ~ no

Tyrannochromis ~ no

Champsochromis ~ no

elongatus chewere ~ no

Tropheus ~ a single male of ONE species should be ok

Christmas Fulu ~ yea why not.

Elongatus Mapanga ~ personally I'd get lab. mbamba instead, but either will work

Electric Yellow ~ of course lol! GET 6, of course it means ya cant feed whitecrane or they will go dirty. If you were going to crane them I would not get lecky yellows and instead get sunshine peacocks!

F1 Frontosa "Zaire Blue" Kapampa ~ sounds expensive, not something I would add in with aggressive little mbuna in a 4 footer.

Red tip Black Shark ~ yea why not, cheap and tough enough to hold a cave.

Strawberry Aulonocara ~ Its a display, I'd buy lots of "assorted peacocks". Dont worry about names with peacocks, buy what looks pretty.

Melanochromis Chipokae~ should be ok, just dont buy auratus by mistake. Can you tell the difference?

Chalinochromis bifrenatus ~ a single chalinochromis should be able to lurk away IF theres enough caves/rock piles AND you add it early!

Chisumulae ~ beautiful fish, very under rated.

As far as diet goes, just feed them all spectrum pellets.

Too easy.

OK well firstly I’m scrapping:

Paratilapia polleni

Tyrannochromis

Champsochromis

elongatus chewere

F1 Frontosa "Zaire Blue" Kapampa

Revised List:

• Elongatus Mapanga / Mbamba x 1 (I need to look if you can have both)

• Magunga or msobo (so add this last if at all because it can become hyper aggressive?)

• 1 x Tropheus (ensure I get a Male)

• 1 x Christmas Fulu

• 6 x Electric Yellow or sunshine peacocks! (AHHHH you just opened my eyes to another issue …whitecrane)

• 1 x Red tip Black Shark

• 1 x Chalinochromis bifrenatus (I’ll be putting plenty of hiding spots)

• 1 x Melanochromis Chipokae (dont buy auratus by mistake) NOPE Don’t know difference please help

• 1 x Chisumulae

• The rest assorted peacocks you say? And just look at what ones look nice?

Sorry ive just copied this from a word doc so I have a list. I'm going to look into this combination. Thanks heaps [MENTION=9246]Donny@ageofaquariums[/MENTION] Exactly the advice I was looking for

[Tazzabro]

Melanochromis Chipokae _ Longer snout and bigger mouth

auratus has white stripes along with the black and yellow

[Shanoz]

When you find some Chipokae mate, I want some more females, so let me know where you found them. I got one female last weekend from the only Aquarium in Brisbane that I have seen for quite awhile to even have them, very hard to find atm. I know one guy on here that was selling them and due to us talking, I have made him change his mind for the pure fact of them being to hard to find right now! When it comes to diets all the others are spot on. What I do considering I have a mix is that I feed them a heap of quality Algae based flake and once the fish have eaten nearly all of it I then feed them either African Attack or NLS, with these pellets I alternate them each day. I also do feed them frozen brine but the spirulina brine by Hikari to keep their diets all happy together. The last thing you want is to buy yourself some expensive Troph's and then loose them to a silly mistake by feeding them incorrectly. Anther think I like to do, is buy some baby spinach and fancy lettuce ans put the leaves on a fork and drop that into the tank that way the Algae/Plant Eaters can have a delicious feed! Hope this helps you bud!

[Tazzabro]

When you find some Chipokae mate, I want some more females, so let me know where you found them. I got one female last weekend from the only Aquarium in Brisbane that I have seen for quite awhile to even have them, very hard to find atm. I know one guy on here that was selling them and due to us talking, I have made him change his mind for the pure fact of them being to hard to find right now! When it comes to diets all the others are spot on. What I do considering I have a mix is that I feed them a heap of quality Algae based flake and once the fish have eaten nearly all of it I then feed them either African Attack or NLS, with these pellets I alternate them each day. I also do feed them frozen brine but the spirulina brine by Hikari to keep their diets all happy together. The last thing you want is to buy yourself some expensive Troph's and then loose them to a silly mistake by feeding them incorrectly. Anther think I like to do, is buy some baby spinach and fancy lettuce ans put the leaves on a fork and drop that into the tank that way the Algae/Plant Eaters can have a delicious feed! Hope this helps you bud!

Ok Great thanks man yeah that feeding advice is awesome thanks. Yeah I REALLY want a Chipokae however I'm only setting up the Sump and getting water in my tank this weekend (hopefully if all goes smoothly) so it might be a few weeks (Since they are meant to be added last) before I start looking around but if I see or hear of any I'll let you know. Do you know if I'd have trouble finding anything else on my revised list (#17)? Or anything that is very expensive (more than $30 a fish)?

[BigPete86]

Now ya got it bro, that's a better looking list & with shanoz's feeding advice you should be sweet but remember, no guarantees with live animals. Everything may work out perfect for ya (I really hope it does because that'll be a great looking mix!) but at least if ya do run into a prob you're on the best forum for knowledge & solutions. Prep is key, try to know what to expect (if that makes sense?). I'd recommend having a quarantine tank on hand & running an air driven sponge in your main tank while it cycles. A qt tank can just be a tub or large bucket from bunnings or you can get a lil 2ft tank (I prefer the tank myself, can see the fish's recovery progress much easier) & then by having a conditioned sponge filter in your cycled tank, when you start gettin fish if a fish in the main tank has a prob you can half fill/fill your qt tank with water from the main tank, throw in a heater & your preconditioned sponge, then catch affected fish/es & treat separate from the main tank. Some things it's better to treat the tank itself but we'll jump from that bridge if we come to it lol.

As for water changes I'd do 50% a wk with that stock list but you can work out a suited regime with a test kit. I do my water changes by bucket & air tubing siphon, nice & slow, this way no drastic changes in chemistry or temp to shock the fish & especially good if there may be fry swimming around or a stressed out fish. Slow adjustments so they don't drop their slime cost & let something into their system. I just keep refilling the siphon bucket with another without taking it down but I'm tall & my tanks aren't real high. If you're worried bout making a mess, or your tank is too high or you're a bit short just put the bucket on the ground to refill, if your siphon tubes are long enough then keep the ends below both surfaces of water (bucket & tank) this way ya don't have to start the siphon again

[Donny@ageofaquariums]

• 1 X Elongatus Mapanga OR lab Mbamba (cant have both as a mpanga would beat up a mbamba)

• Magunga or msobo (so add this last if at all because it can become hyper aggressive?) ~ yes

• 1 x Tropheus (ensure I get a Male)

• 1 x Christmas Fulu

• 6 x Electric Yellow

• 1 x Red tip Black Shark

• 1 x Chalinochromis bifrenatus (I’ll be putting plenty of hiding spots)

• 1 x Melanochromis Chipokae (dont buy auratus by mistake) NOPE Don’t know difference please help

• 1 x Chisumulae

• The rest assorted peacocks you say? And just look at what ones look nice?

As far as costs on your fish, be on the look out for a bargain Chalinochromis species. They do pop up around the $10 to $15 mark.

Also shop around to find your Tropheus! They can be expensive so......... wait for a bargain!

I have editted your fish list so they are ALL rock fish.

This way you can setup your scape with lots of rocks.

I would consider if you like the way these fish look AND then decide if you want to add MORE rock fish (eg mbuna)

OR if you want to mix in other fish types like the peacocks or maybe even a red empress male as a centre piece.

Other rock fish that would work well in that mix......... pindani, hongi, rusty, polit, afra.......

Personally I have my own favourites and my current display is almost all peacocks.

But theres so many other cool africans to choose from

and theres not much thats better than cruising around a few lfs on the weekend with mates or the mrs, and buying another 3 fish for the tank!

So leave yourself SOME room.

because theres always something new!

barlowi, lithobates, trets, lecky blues, snow whites, daffodil brichardi..........

[Tazzabro]

No worries [MENTION=9752]BigPete86[/MENTION] thanks for the advice. The setup went well on the weekend just need to get a good test kit from somewhere as the guy at the fish store tried to sell me individual test kits ($20 each lol). Yeah this is the dream list so hopefully with heaps of hiding places and slow introduction it should be ok..(my fingers ar crossed too)

Ok Great advice thanks Donny. I'll stick with that list for the time being and I've written down the extra fish you have suggested so I can add some at at a later point. Or well I'll keep a list so when I go looking as you have suggested (with a mate or mrs which will definitely happen).

So now my water is in my tank see new to fish and forum (will post pics in next hour) so read there to see what I still have to do. But yeah my next question for here is "What order to add the fish"? I'm going to be trying to get my water right by this weekend (hopefully) so maybe I can add stuff then if I can determine an order? HELP?

[Donny@ageofaquariums]

Cool.

You can either add the most placid ones first and slowly stock the tank.

OR you can cycle the tank first and then buy say 6 fish on the same day and add them all in together.

This second method is excellent IF you can find a store that has 6 fish on your list to add in!

[Tazzabro]

6 electric yellows? haha. Yeah I think I might slowly add. Or add a few to start then slowly add. So what is least aggressive on my list? red tailed black shark? aquariums really dont like the idea of red tip black shark and cichlids.