Elblingo Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 So I have had a hard battle with gill fluke the past 6 months. These things have so far resulted in the death of my Mangrove Jack AND my Moses perch. And has now has built up an immunity to prazi AND salt over its many generations of being treated. I now have to euthanize my Purple spot Gudgeon colony, rams and shut down my 3ft and my 6 foot and others. I am pretty set on tearing down my infected tanks, cleaning everything thoroughly with hot water and leaving dry for atleast a week. Then setting back up again. But I know once the fluke has hatched into larvae form it needs to find a host within 24 hours to live. The eggs hatch between 3-5 days in temperatures exceeding 24c, so if I leave my tanks run fishless for a month I should be rid of them? It would be risky but would take about as much time as tearing down all my tanks, cleaning, setting them back up and cycling again. And a lot less work. These things are the EPITOME of evil, I don't know what else to call them. So far they have cost me around $500 in fish alone not to mention the amount i've spent on the ridiculously expensive meds. I should also mention it was Pet Barn Coomera that gave me the parasite. I brought this to their attention but they seem unaware to what sort of damage this thing can do. I've seen fish scratch at their store. It's not their fault they got it, they import Jacks from NT. Unfortunately the one I bought had it. Yet they are still selling people fish. This parasite is pure evil, and would not wish upon my worst enemy. But imagine the sort of damage this could do to someone running rack setups with 30+ tanks and 1000's of fish. Im just sort of at a loss at the moment as to what I should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny@ageofaquariums Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Did you try hit it with sterazin or levamisole? Leaving tank barren should deny it hosts and result in a total die off of parasites. But it would also be nice to find the parasites weak spot to help others who need to treat for them in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john22 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Wow feel sorry for ya never had that problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elblingo Posted August 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Did you try hit it with sterazin or levamisole?Leaving tank barren should deny it hosts and result in a total die off of parasites. But it would also be nice to find the parasites weak spot to help others who need to treat for them in future. Yep, everything. Notably there is 1500 different typed of gill fluke so that factor makes it hard. Spent $300+ on meds and just not willing to spend anymore. Probably going to clove oil the rest of my fish and do a tear down this weekend. I just dont want to leave any chance for them to come back. My 6 foots been sitting with 1 crayfish in it running at around 26c for around 2 weeks now but its just a waste of power IMO. May aswell start fresh I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daharkazangel Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Bugger....ive had camalanus worms, another one I wouldn't wish on my enemies....pays to QT. Sorry for the loss in fish and $$ mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elblingo Posted August 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Bugger....ive had camalanus worms, another one I wouldn't wish on my enemies....pays to QT. Sorry for the loss in fish and $$ mate. Quarantine.It still would of been hard, the fish look fine you wouldnt know they had it. And they only scratch once every 4 hours from what i've seen. It would be easy or it to go unnoticed for a long time in a Q tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daharkazangel Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Quarantine.It still would of been hard, the fish look fine you wouldnt know they had it. And they only scratch once every 4 hours from what i've seen. It would be easy or it to go unnoticed for a long time in a Q tank. Please don't make me think about it....this forum makes me get Goosebumps at the thought of putting my arm in my tank(s) sometimes.....seriously some nasty stuff out there...and some things can pass to humans (shiver) Never had what you've got and never want it. Other then the odd scratch what other symptom's are you seeing? Are they dying by themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasman Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 thats terrible mate. how do you know 100% sure its gill flukes? just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubbi Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) elblingo, sorry to hear about your lost I'm going through the same thing right now and tried most meds but no luck, a friend told me to try condies crystals which you can buy at a pharmacy no script needed. (1) 2 grams of condies crystals (2) dilute crystals in 1 litre of rainwater or deionized water (3) For every .5ml of the pre mixed solution it'll treat 1 litre of aquarium water. (4) turn off canister filter or sump and place an airstone in tank with air pump of course, to provide oxygen (5) Pour in correct amount of solution to treat your volume of water. (6) monitor your fishes while treating (7) Water will turn dark pink/purple ( Treat for 2hrs and then turn canister or sump back on (9) Water will be clear in 12-24hrs (10) Monitor fish the next day if still scratching treat the next day again Was told to treat again in approx 1 week later as gill flukes eggs may hatch again so this last treatment should kill all, Thanks Ozarawana :-) Another friend told me 6 grams to 3 litres of water (same amount but diff amount for pre mix solution) and this 3 litres will treat 3000 litres of water, the pre mix can be stored for a longtime, thanks JP I have treated my fish twice now, yesterday was the second time and I have not seen any scratching and they look heaps better with lots more energy and not laying on bottom of tank. This method worked for me and hope it works for your fishes but please don't blame me if things don't work out. Discus Forums :: View topic - PP, potassium permanganate, KMnO4, condy's crystals Edited August 30, 2013 by tubbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneself Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Tubbi beat me, I used condis after finding the f'n things in my americans. Didnt lose any fish, though I was lucky to catch it early. Last time I ever imported feeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny@ageofaquariums Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Condys is a powerful one........ To dilute it, if fish are reacting badly Hydrogen Peroxide can be used. Its worth having a bottle on hand in case its needed as its not that expensive compared to new fish! Koi, Goldfish & Pond Health Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2 Peroxide Reversal of Potassium Permanganate and Peroxide For Oxygenation deactivate by adding an equal quantity of Hydrogen Peroxide (3% solution). Reccomended to water change first if the water is loaded with organics. Otherwise condys will burn out on things like filter mulm. Also kills plants, snails and shrimp.... at different concentrations. As a last resort its a good ace to have up your sleeve But its always important to use extreme caution when using it. As its easy to kill the one you are trying to cure. I reccomend reading this first Potassium permanganate | The Skeptical Aquarist I have faced some brutal diseases in wild caught fish. Its not fun at all, especially if you cant ID what is doing the damage. Think of condies like a bottle of multicure thats treats almost everything with a hammer. You dont want to use a hammer on the small problems. As theres gonna be a high risk of collateral damage. But when you run out of other options, its nice to have the option of trying the hammer method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elblingo Posted August 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 i'm pretty set on euthanasia. I've tried so much to no avail. Maybe if my Jack was still around i'd be ready and willing, but no. I know its gill flukes, and from what I seen when the Jack went, heavy, heavy breathing, complete loss of colour and mucus secretion from gills. Knew it was flukes as soon as I seen the scratch. Will let you'se know how I go. Will be nice starting fresh and getting to rescape my tanks I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidTullee Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 You could try this worm, fluke, parasite med. I found it magic stuff. kusuri-wormer-plus. Google it or if you can't find it pm me. I had a few small discus that were riddled with gill flukes and lost a few trying different meds befor getting this stuff. They were colourless fish and barely ate anything and were wasting away. Within two days of treating them there colours were back and were eating like horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny@ageofaquariums Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 You can do a flush on a fishes gills to get a sample to pump under a scope. The reason I mention this is some types of flex have almost identical symptoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sclero p Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Given your stocklist salt would have been the simple magic bullet, or condys. L. russellii struggling to osmoregulate in low salinity the perfect host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elblingo Posted September 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 You can do a flush on a fishes gills to get a sample to pump under a scope.The reason I mention this is some types of flex have almost identical symptoms. I am certain it was GF, considering he came from Northern Territory, there were no exterior signs, no heaving breathing (Until the final 48hrs) sum around and ate for months like a normal fish with a few scratches here and there. Just didn't have the tools to do a Gill scrape at the time. Given your stocklist salt would have been the simple magic bullet, or condys. L. russellii struggling to osmoregulate in low salinity the perfect host The water the Jack and perch were in was very salty, not marine but heavily brackish. I think one generation of what flukes were left after the meds and salt laid eggs, which had some sort of an immunity to the salt and meds, once hatched they flourished and nothing was touching them. Also, I would like you to explain Osmoregulation to he haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny@ageofaquariums Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Osmoregulatory systems in fish are what keeps their cells the right ratio of water:salt in the various water conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sclero p Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Sorry in your posts on MFK said your Moses Perch was in "very low salinity nearly fresh" bound to cark it a marine fish despite what any one claims. Jacks are also a marine fish despite the fact that a small proportion of juvies recruit to suitable freshwater and can live there indefinitely IF THE PARAMATERS ARE SUITABLE. Had a problem with Monogean Flukes at Walkamin with the broodstock in freshwater ponds during the early days of culturing M. argentimaculatus. Neguvon had no effect, a marine fish so went to hypersaline bath 45 ppt salt then back into saltwater, no more flukes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilpierre Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 I used to use straight formalin for gill flukes treating Murray Cod, used to work within 24hrs they'd go from gasping for air at the surface to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny@ageofaquariums Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Brooklynella hostilis is when I pull out the formalin. Bloody hell I hate that fiend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elblingo Posted September 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Sorry in your posts on MFK said your Moses Perch was in "very low salinity nearly fresh" bound to cark it a marine fish despite what any one claims. Jacks are also a marine fish despite the fact that a small proportion of juvies recruit to suitable freshwater and can live there indefinitely IF THE PARAMATERS ARE SUITABLE. Had a problem with Monogean Flukes at Walkamin with the broodstock in freshwater ponds during the early days of culturing M. argentimaculatus. Neguvon had no effect, a marine fish so went to hypersaline bath 45 ppt salt then back into saltwater, no more flukes. Yes, that was a little while ago, but from that point on I started bumping the salt up when I realised the flukes were back in my 3 foot. I know Ruselli likes heavier brackish conditions and more suitably full marine and that was the plan for him. Argentimaculatus though, I thought were a full marine fish once reached 45-60cm depending on sex from what i've read. I've seen people bring a large Jack from heavy Brackish conditions to fresh in less than 6 months. I would definitely like to hear more about the cultivating though, always keen to learn more about the early days of keeping Jacks. Favourite fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishkeeper101 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Sorry for the bad news, i hope i never have this problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
