Oil of Cloves Euthanasia

[Tejay]

I had to euthanasia a few juvenile Venustus last night due to deformities.

The largest was 8cm, smallest 5cm.

Instead of using blunt force, I decided to try clove oil by;

- Placing them in roughly 1L of water along with airation.

- The instructions on this site is to use 400mg of clove oil - I am not sure how you meausre 400mg?

- I read elsewhere that it is 0.25ml per 1L, so I measured 0.25ml, mixed it with water in the syringe and added a few drops.

I was stunned to see the fish going belly up after only a minute or two after using just a few drops.

To make sure, I added a few more drops and then added ice to be really sure.

Did I do this right and does anyone know the correct dosage in the future for 1L in terms of ml?

This also has me thinking, when transfering juvenile fish to the local fish shop/and or sorting them for deformities/quality, is it possible/advisable to use a reduce amount to simply make them sleepy and sorting/transporting easier? As it stands, I have a lot of trouble trying to pluck a few bad fish out of a couple of hundred.

Thanks

[ozmo]

Sounds right to me. The amount to use really depends on the size of the fish IME.

I have never thought about using oil of cloves for anything other than euthanising fish so no, I definitely wouldn't use it for transporting.

I use Seachem Stress Guard for shipping.

[DavidTullee]

Yeah the way you know if it is working is the gill movement stops and shortly after they die from lack of oxygen. Harmless as they are asleep at the time. You can use it for sedating fish. Do a google search for Aqui-s (it is essentially clove oil but costs more) and there is information on that site about dosing, but you should always do a test with a fish of the size and species you aim to sedate first to make sure. If you keep a close eye on them and have back up water with no clove oil in it, you can put the fish in the clean water and they will recover in a few minutes.

[mr_c265]

It's difficult to tell if the fish has actually died though, there have been times for me when a fish flaps a bit (might even be nerve twitches) after it has looked dead for a while, so i always sever the spinal cord after i have put the fish to sleep.

To be honest though, sometimes it is too hard to get out the clove oil, i quickly sever the fishes head with a sharp knife, immediately at the base of the skull, it is painless.

Contrary to popular belief, it is incredibly cruel to freeze fish as euthanasia, the expanding ice in the fishes blood cells causes internal bleeding and painful ruptures in all of the cell walls. Would not be pleasant.

And toilets.. don't even.

As far as transportation, yes, but as was said above, do not leave them in the Clove Oil water, you need to change the fish over IMMEDIATELY after it gets drowsy else you risk brain damage and death.

[Tejay]

Cool, thanks for the feedback everyone

[tutters187]

I wouldn't put air in with them just let them go quietly

[Ghost]

Aqui-S is essentially synthetic clove oil.

The molecule that has an anaesthetic effect is found as two isomers in natural clove oil. Isomers are molecules that are chemically identical but structurally different. A bit like a left hand and a right hand.

Only one isomer in clove oil has effect, and the ratio of the two isomers is random.

So if you want to euthanise, clove oil is fine, just overdose.

I use Aqui-S for all harvesting and packing, because I know it's 100% active isomer. To sedate for harvesting I use 2.5ml to 100L, for packing I use one tenth of that rate and for euthanasia I use ten times that rate.

[mr_c265]

Aqui-S is essentially synthetic clove oil.

The molecule that has an anaesthetic effect is found as two isomers in natural clove oil. Isomers are molecules that are chemically identical but structurally different. A bit like a left hand and a right hand.

Only one isomer in clove oil has effect, and the ratio of the two isomers is random.

So if you want to euthanise, clove oil is fine, just overdose.

I use Aqui-S for all harvesting and packing, because I know it's 100% active isomer. To sedate for harvesting I use 2.5ml to 100L, for packing I use one tenth of that rate and for euthanasia I use ten times that rate.

Left hand right hand is generally the notation for enantiomers rather than structural isomers.

And it's typically enantiomers that have an active and an inactive form, enantiomers either form as racemates, or if formed by selective enzymes as either R or S only.

AQUI-S is isoeugenol, the Alkene group is in a different location, it doesn't form naturally in clove oil, the one in clove oil is Eugenol, a structural isomer of isoeugenol.

And yep, the rotational isomers form randomly, but Aqui-S still has a random arrangement of Cis and Trans.

[Tejay]

Just another question on this topic...

I separated some deformed fry today, placed them in the clove oil and they went belly up.

I thought instead of wasting these fish, I would give them a quick wash in fresh water and feed them to my main fish.

Anyone see a problem with that?

[th3f0rg0t3n]

why not just feed them before you treated them with the clove oil ?

would imagine that makes things a fair bit more safe??

[Ghost]

Tejay,

There's no problem in feeding the euthanased fish to your other fish, although if your 'main' fish will eat dead fish, I wouldn't bother rinsing in fresh water. You just risk waking them up for one last horrible experience.

mr_c265,

There are errors in your post (might be some in mine too, I didn't research). I'd suggest that anyone very interested in the chemistry should do their own research.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Ghost

[Tejay]

Thanks for confirming that.

Re th3f0rg0t3n, I just feel uncomfortable about that.

In the past it has taken a long time for my fish to eat the ones I drop in (after hiding in corners etc).

So if I practically put them to sleep, but they still wriggle a little my bigger fish can snap them up without fuss.

Thanks for everyone's input.