Jump to content
Christo

Black Ghost Knife.............Mysteries of breeding???

Recommended Posts

I did read on a forum somewhere there was a guy in brisbane that did get them to breed. I seen a good one about 30cm at capalaba pet superstore for $110 but we get them up here at the lfs around 4-5cm for $15.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is someone else that breeds them here in Brisbane. I for the life of me cant remember names only that he was out Kallangur way. And yes I went to his place and he told me all about them. It can be done. I don't think he is a member on this forum. Sorry I am not much more help but they are not what I am into so I didn't listen to well when i was beeing told. I know the white stripe down their back goes blood red and that they are egg scatterers and you can use a chinese food container full of marbels to keep the eggs in or something along those lines. He also told me how to sex them by the shape and size of their heads but cant remember exactly and the female needs to be bigger than the boy. When they are going to breed aswell as the stripe going red they point nose down and sort of dance together. Cant remember temps or anything else. hope this is some sort of help to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did read on a forum somewhere there was a guy in brisbane that did get them to breed. I seen a good one about 30cm at capalaba pet superstore for $110 but we get them up here at the lfs around 4-5cm for $15.

yeah they do get a bit excited with the prices sometimes, ive seen em pretty cheap in some privatly owned petstores, its the franchises taht charge like a wounded bull....

Christo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think gurds is right when he says stuart from mang hill. I have been to his house once and were chatting about them.

I no longer have contact details but he used to go by the name of sharon (and stuart) on drumpak.

i am sure someone out there is buddies with him and could line you up for a chat...

hth

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is someone else that breeds them here in Brisbane. I for the life of me cant remember names only that he was out Kallangur way. And yes I went to his place and he told me all about them. It can be done. I don't think he is a member on this forum. Sorry I am not much more help but they are not what I am into so I didn't listen to well when i was beeing told. I know the white stripe down their back goes blood red and that they are egg scatterers and you can use a chinese food container full of marbels to keep the eggs in or something along those lines. He also told me how to sex them by the shape and size of their heads but cant remember exactly and the female needs to be bigger than the boy. When they are going to breed aswell as the stripe going red they point nose down and sort of dance together. Cant remember temps or anything else. hope this is some sort of help to you.

thank you very much Tabby :wink: more info then i had so far,

muchly appreciated

Cheers

Christo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think gurds is right when he says stuart from mang hill. I have been to his house once and were chatting about them.

I no longer have contact details but he used to go by the name of sharon (and stuart) on drumpak.

i am sure someone out there is buddies with him and could line you up for a chat...

hth

i think i have seen a member on qldcichlid and drumpak with that user name, i'll give him a holla Thanks Sweetie :D

Christo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shaneoo7 has breed them once. When someone asked for info, he offered to sell information. :roll: He passed parents on, so maybe ask who bought them off him.

Pete, worked for G&S aquarium, {don't think he still does} has bred them, not keen to pass on information.

http://www.gnsaquarium.com.au/html/bgk.html

A guy who posted on ACE forum has bred them, again not keen to pass on information. I chose too.

http://www.aceforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=32494

Just noticed same guy posted here.

http://www.perthcichlid.com/pcs/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=49969#49969

A mate of mine has bred them a few times, by accident I might add. I have documented somewhere what he did.{old qldcichlid forum} He used to sell his to Bernies Pet Barn, now this was years ago. I haven't seen this mate in 5 years now, as I got out of a certain scene. :roll: Small world, he used to go to school with Brad in Grafton, the guy was an employee of mine when my family had a Fush n Chup shop. he never uses the net, nor had any idea how rare these are to breed.

Bryce2003 found some information on the net, which is very useful. I have kept a copy, somewhere. Only on paper but.

Aquariums Alive before Brad's family owned it, had a personal supplier. Lady had them breeding often.

I have of someone else in North Brisbane too.

Thats the thing, info on the net is limited, but as you can see I can easily name a few, there would be more out there too. A lot of fish keepers don't use the net. :lol:

Here is what I posted on ACE in response to the breeders post.

Congrats & well done.

I know of 3 others for sure, few maybes.

First I heard the guy above who didn't even know at first. As mentioned above by Brad, he bred them a few times. wegot to observe what happens a few times since. His set up seemed to mimmick what I have heard others have set up on purpose. Except for the use of chinese containers, his set up was for his to look at not breed.

We didn't know they were rare, as in breeding back then, he used to sell his young to Bernies Pet Barn. Ben dosen't visit forums, isn't into that sort of thing, therefore not documented. Sorry he is a skateboarding, metal lover etc, I haven't seen him for 3-4 years, i dropped out of the "scene" LOL.gif

The one Brad mentioned above who dosen't want to share is connected with G&S Aquarium on the Gold Coast. I have met him at Auctions up here, I mentioned the breeding from my mate, shared some information with him to get a response, he wasn't keen to share back any info, or talk about it at all, big deal cryblow.gif tongue.gif

The other I have heard of & people have assured me they saw the youngens is Shaneoo7, on Lungy's forum & ex Qld cichlid forum. I believe he sold his pair after the first spawn. Once again someone asked for information, he offered to sell the information, after breeding them just once LOL.gif I posted up what I had to share as did another member, I think name is Bryce2003.

I have heard rumours twice since of people breeding these, but since I am not so much in the trade anymore I cannot confirm.

Oh sorry one more, The previous owner of Aquariums Alive{Chris} had a customer sell him some, he stated they used to ripped out the filter wool in a box filter & laid in that.

Just so I can confirm that I have seen the deed,

Eggs are laid white, turn brown. Eggs hatch in 4-7 days. The young at first are a brown colour.

Both sexes have red flashes in their tails when they are keen to breed, mate used to try & do a huge water change when there was a change in atmosphere pressure, ie; storms were good. They spawned not long after big water changes. His tank was riddled with algae & had constant rock/ metal music around too. {doubt that mattered}

Part of the mating ritual looked like the fish were wrestling, ie; rolling in hay.

Female lays eggs head down to the ground like she is feeding off the bottom. Eggs come out from just under her head.

Ideal set up seems to be with large black pebbles & chinese containers. That way eggs can be seen & removed. Parents will eat them.

My mate did say the young did start to venture out of the pebbles at the 2-3 week stage, so he had to catch them out before then.{never used containers}

Fry are sensitive, he had a high death rate at the start, small live culture helped.

Tank set up with fast water flow, mate also had a big aqua clear on the tank. Other set ups I have heard of is that they try to simulate rainfall.

Males head is shaped more like a horses head, females head is more slender. His eyes are higher in the head & her eyes are lower, to the front of the head, by the mouth.

Bryce did find some information on a large scale breeding set up in Ecuador, if anyone wants info, I will pass it on. My mate dosen't give a hoot, when I first told him about how rare they are to breed & the dramas on information, he laughed. I have/ had his blessing to share.

Any info, will be shared, just pm or ask.

Sorry to jack the thread,

Frenchy :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about that, found Bryce2003 article on another forum, how funny. I even remembered his poster name, I thought my memory is rubbish :lol: Posted back in 2004.

First of all a little history first. Ecuador used to have a mass breeding set up in a mining/land clearing town that ran off the local river. It was originally set up for experimentation purposes for a similar reason to the German's using Peter's Elephant Noses with it's electrical impulses as an indicator for water quality. The experiment failed which led to exportation and smuggling.

The set up consisted of 3 sheds about 500m square. It had double rows of tanks going from one end of the shed to the other and up to 5 rows high. The tanks themselves were 2ft high and seperated by dividers giving about 3ftx2ft per tank. The dividers were about 1 1/2in below the waterline so that if the fish weren't compatible they could find their way into a tank with another that was. Some tanks had a single pair, some had 1 female and several males and vice versa. The shed was kept at a low light level. The bottoms of the tanks were completely covered in marbles to allow the eggs to drop through to the bottom as the adults will eat the eggs. They are egg scatterer's. Once the eggs were laid it was about 4-7 days to hatching. The water used was pumped straight from the river into a pipe set up that ran over the top of each of the tanks. The pipes were slotted so that the water coming out was similar to that of a water fall as they supposedly like fast flowing water. Their breeding season is also supposed to be the wet season however the set up they had negated this to year round breeding. No heaters were used in the tanks and the water was fairly cool however outside of the water it was quite humid. The water as I said was river water so it was always murky and stirred up particularly during the wet season. Once the fry had hatched they were kept in the same tank as the adults. Supposedly the fry are slow growing until around the 2-3in mark. I am unaware of what they fed them. As for being temperamental I don't know as they didn't seem to have too many difficulties other than incompatibility and the occasional half a fish left floating. However it is their natural environment.

How does this relate to breeding over here. Well many different ways have been set up to breed them from what I have been told. The principle though is the same as with any fish and that is to find a compatible pair. The best way that a male has been described to me is that his head is shaped more like that of a horse's head and it's eyes are more towards the top of it's head. Whilst the female has a slender head and it's eyes are lower and more towards the front of it's head close to it's mouth. There is also another way that I have not been able to fully verify yet and that is the male have larger eyes and they are fully black whilst the female has smaller eyes which are moreof an opaque colour. However as I said I have not been able to verify this completely. Tanks have been set up with bare bottoms that have the bottom of a pot plant in it filled with large pebbles, the bottom fully covered with marbles or anything that will allow the eggs to drop through without the parents getting to them. From all the info so far it seems that smooth rocks/pebbles regardless of how they are set out is what they prefer. Chinese container's with dark marbles in them have been used to great effect. Water quality has been hardest to get accurate info on as it seems that most people that I have spoken to had tanks that were riddled with algae, almost to the point of having putrid water as it seems that this is what they prefer however 1 person that I spoke to was pedantic about water quality and did regular water changes. Whatever filter people used it was also unanimous in the fact that the water flowed down onto the top of the tanks water level. Anything can be used for this as 1 person even used a powerhead hooked up to some hose that ran into a shower rose so that the resulting flow was similar to that of a tropical down pour. There was also varying success with lighting. Most people had completely darkened tanks in very quiet areas while 1 person had a brightly lit tank with regular loud music. I suppose it all depends on what sort of environment the fish is comfortable in. The average water temp. that was observed for breeding was 27 degrees celcius.

When both are ready to mate both the male and the female will have a red flashing on their tail. However the males is fairly predominant with the females only being slight. When the female lays the eggs it looks as if she is feeding from the rocks as the eggs come out from just under her head. As the female takes a break the male fertilises the eggs. Afterwards it may look as if the male is dead as he may lay motionless for a while but he's only shagged from a marathon session. When the female comes back to lay more eggs the male will take off and there continue's the laying cycle. The eggs when laid are clear and will go white if they go bad. This is where the chinese containers with dark marbles are effective due to the contrast in colours. If you do miss the laying process you will be able to tell anyway due to the amount of eggs laid. As the eggs mature they will slowly grow a tail and form their natural shape, at this stage being brown in colour and turning black as they mature. If you do remove the fry, do so around the 2-3 week mark as this is when they will start to venture out and will be mistaken for food by the parents. The fry love protein pellets and blood worms. Grind the pellets up in a salt or pepper grinder over a net so that once it is crushed you can feed it to the fry. The blood worms are good for conditioning and they should thrive on protein pellets. The one over riding factor out of all of this is the ability to keep the fry alive. For some reason there is a high mortality rate with 10 out of a 100 being a very good survivability rate from all accounts.

This info is the result of my own research which included a lot of info passed on by private breeders. The thing that seemed most evident was a lot of the info was similar with individual differences and preferences throughout. As the saying goes, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. I will also strongly conclude that I myself have not at this stage attempted to breed this wonderful fish. However in the not to distant future I am hoping to get a male to go with the female that I have in order to give it a go. So for everyone else, if you give it a go I wish you all the best of luck. However could you please keep myself posted with your success's and the not so success's as I will continue to update my research. I hope this has been informative for all and an incentive to give it a go.

Cheers,

Bryce.

P.S. It seemed that they reached sexual maturity once they were around the 15-18cm mark.

This was added by a friend of mine, {Rustyblade}

I'll add what I've been told be a reliable source as well....

You need to imitate the rainy season for several weeks. You can do this by removing about 5% of the tanks water daily and replacing it with desalted water. You should replace about 50% of the total water volume using this method. By doing this you will lower the salt and pH value of the breeding water. When replacing water let the water splash on the surface of the tank to future imitate the rainy season. Once your fish spawn you no long need to play rain man. You will however want to make sure you pH does not raise to quickly. tips;use a large trickle filter,internal with spray bar....simulate rain/river flow. Use pots or chinese containers with large dark pebbles.

Frenchy :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if i can get a colony and get them breeding i could imagine there would be quite a market........to wholesalers and privateers alike

it will be a long and interesting road, but im already over breeding zebs and the like, it was just way to easy.....

im going to specifically with

"Malombe" C.Moori

7 bar fronnies

6 bar fronnies

peppermints

orangespots

common b/n

e.yellows

and the ghost knives on a large scale

im probably selling all those tanks and stands in my fish room shortly

in exchange for 4 x 3 teir stands that hold 6ft x 18in x 18in 's and im going to plumb the whole lot into a sump system.......should be pimp

Christo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sexing them is easier when you have a couple to compare too.

The best way that a male has been described to me is that his head is shaped more like that of a horse's head and it's eyes are more towards the top of it's head. Whilst the female has a slender head and it's eyes are lower and more towards the front of it's head close to it's mouth. There is also another way that I have not been able to fully verify yet and that is the male have larger eyes and they are fully black whilst the female has smaller eyes which are moreof an opaque colour. However as I said I have not been able to verify this completely.

Read the Bryce2003 article, will give you all you need to know in tank set up.

My mate used a blue light, 4ft tank, huge aqua clear cannister, an internal power filter with air tubing attached, large black pebbles, driftwood logs, his tank wasn't the cleanest, then again it was lightly stocked. Had hair algae lol, oh and constant rock/metal music in the background with the aroma of pot in the background :lol: He has no lids on the front of tank, therefore lost water to evaporation, hence heaps of little top ups with fresh water. Never used a heater either in summer.

Frenchy :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just an update. I here the guy in Perth sold the parents for, get this $700. 8O Not bad for a fish that a wholesaler can buy for a couple of dollars.

If anyone wants to read a study on their prey capture behaviour, use of sensors etc.... read this

http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cache/papers/cs/15084/http:zSzzSzsoma.npa.uiuc.eduzSz~mmaciverzSzpubszSz20000521_MacI00c.pdf/prey-capture-behavior-in.pdf

Frenchy :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hope this info helps all that are trying to breed bgk. the only way to determine sex is to turn them on their back and squeeze very gently around their dorsal fins, if its a male when squeezed his appendage lol will stick out if its a female then nothing. this is all the info i can gather i hope it all helps may want to sticky this thread mods :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...